A witness recants. A murder case unravels. In 2018, Christopher Alvord and his dog were killed in Eureka Springs. We dig into the fear, missing evidence, and unanswered questions that remain.

A witness flips. A town loses its innocence.

When a key witness recants in a high-profile murder case, the whole foundation of justice starts to crack. In this episode of Things I Wanna Know with Andrea S., we dive into the chilling 2018 murder of Christopher Alvord—and his dog—in the quiet, storybook town of Eureka Springs, Arkansas. A place known for its Victorian charm and artistic spirit suddenly became the backdrop for a nightmare.

We walk you through the first moments the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office arrived on the scene, the shock that rippled through the community, and the unanswered questions that still gnaw at Eureka Springs. Then we pull back the curtain on the chaos before trial—when witness Joshua Anderson abruptly took back his testimony. Was it fear? Pressure? Something darker? With no solid forensic evidence tying anyone to the crime, the prosecution’s case was already hanging by a thread. Anderson’s reversal nearly snapped it.

From there, our conversation widens—into the uneasy truths about how justice falters in small towns, the strange hurdles of cold-case investigations in under-covered places like Arkansas, and even a side-trip into nuclear power advances. We mix in our own highway close calls, a spine-tingling serial killer reference, and—because life’s never just one tone—a mischievous nod to Curious George.

It’s a collision of hard questions and human moments. Serious inquiry laced with unexpected levity. And it’s just the beginning of where Things I Wanna Know is headed.

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Then do us a favor and rate and subscribe; it helps the show find more people like you — the ones who like their mysteries real and their storytellers unfiltered.
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Chapters

• 0:00 Unsolved Murder in Eureka Springs
• 11:19 Unsolved Murder Case in Eureka
• 25:04 Cold Cases and Nuclear Power Discussion
• 28:02 Serial Killer Book Discussion

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I need to know everything who and the what and the where. I need everything. Trust me, I hear what you're saying, but I like it's new what you're telling me. I'm curious, george. I hop in the Porsche five and a horse. I'm ready for war. I'm coming for ghosts, eternal or ghosts. I need to know everything.

Speaker 2: 0:15

So welcome my name's Paul G, and this is Things I Wanna Know with Andrea S, andrea S.

Speaker 3: 0:24

Yes, andrea S, andrea S yes.

Speaker 2: 0:25

Andrea S, andrea S, all right. So we used to do a bunch of interviews and a bunch of cool stuff, and you know what? We wanted to change it up. We like stories.

Speaker 1: 0:39

Yes, so that's what we're going to do.

Speaker 2: 0:40

We're going to tell you a nice story about something we wanted to know about how about that.

Speaker 3: 0:48

Yes, from crime to espionage, to history, to conspiracy theories, to whatever Just things we really want to know. And I've got to stay more serious because me joking around screws things up.

Speaker 2: 1:02

Not really.

Speaker 3: 1:04

We all know how he is. We've listened to our previous podcast. Sometimes I used to have a favorite. Oh my God, paul stop.

Speaker 2: 1:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, moving on, so I guess go ahead, we're going to talk.

Speaker 3: 1:17

Start with the new things About a murder that happened not long after I moved here.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Though Eureka Springs, eureka Springs, eureka Springs, arkansas. Yeah, now that everybody in the entire world does where you live, it's okay.

Speaker 3: 1:27

Eureka Springs is, no one's going to come to Arkansas. We do get tourists but no one's going to find me.

Speaker 2: 1:31

Usually the banjos scare everybody off.

Speaker 3: 1:34

Not where I'm at. It's not that bad. He always says it is. I live down, there's banjos and there's like Bigfoot in the forest or something like that. It's not that bad. We do have turkeys, though, and deer.

Speaker 2: 1:47

I just found, if you put some beef jerky, out for. Bigfoot, and he'll leave you alone.

Speaker 3: 1:51

Well then.

Speaker 2: 1:52

Never mind.

Speaker 3: 1:53

Bigfoot. If I found Bigfoot, I'd make some money.

Speaker 2: 1:56

Big feet.

Speaker 3: 1:57

I do have big feet, so there you go, I'm already Bigfoot. So this case, let's get started. Eureka Springs V-Binance. We're in the northwest corner in Carroll County. We're pretty much known for our Victorian homes, our art, our parades. We have a parade every Saturday from March all the way into December. Crescent Hotel for our ghosts.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Al.

Speaker 3: 2:27

Capone for the Basin Hotel. He, he had his own room, believe it or not. Really, yeah, he did. You take the tour, you walk in there and the very look to the right I'm. I'm dubious about that well, the tour's cool everybody has an al capone room.

Speaker 2: 2:35

I mean the. When did the man have time to manage his mob if he's visiting?

Speaker 3: 2:39

everywhere all the time. Even the the mob's got to take a vacation. That's funny.

Speaker 2: 2:44

So, anyway, we're looking into the unsolved murder of Christopher Alvord here in Eureka Springs.

Speaker 1: 2:53

It's a different case and it's got some weird things and twists and turns.

Speaker 2: 2:59

It's actually kind of crazy.

Speaker 3: 3:01

Yes, this case is not just about the crime itself but the lingering questions that surround it, and there's few. We'll walk you through the crime, the investigation and the various theories that are proposed over the years, and there's several.

Speaker 2: 3:14

So let's look at it just a little closer. What do you think?

Speaker 3: 3:17

Yes, let's go for it. So, Alright, despite this lovely scene that we have in Eureka very serene and relaxing- we're still working this out. The town was shocked on February 8th 2018, when this Christopher Alvred was found murdered in his home. His death has cast pretty much a dark shadow over the community and I remember when this case hit, because we just moved here and I'm thinking I'm bringing my kids and I to this nice, picturesque town and literally like less than six months into living here, somebody gets murdered.

Speaker 2: 3:53

Right. So Christopher Alvord. He was a 37-year-old man living west of Eureka Springs, arkansas. Friends and family described him as a gentle and kind person well-liked in the community. Of course, they always say that, so we're going to go with it, because we don't know any different.

Speaker 3: 4:10

So on February 8th 2018, carroll County Sheriff's Office deputies responded to a call about an open door at the Alvaret home. Inside they found a gruesome scene and poor Alvaret and his dog were brutally stabbed to death. I mean.

Speaker 2: 4:22

They killed his dog. I mean they killed his dog, I mean they didn't just stab him, they killed, they stabbed the dog. Why, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 4:28

I mean, the only thing I could think of is it's horrible, don't stab a dog. But Maybe the dog was attacking them and they had no choice, or making too much noise maybe.

Speaker 2: 4:37

So the immediate reaction, though, was one of shock and disbelief that such a violent crime was unexpected to be happening in this quiet town. It's not that quiet, but whatever and you know everybody's like any town was left uneasy and fearful.

Speaker 3: 4:58

We were there for a while. I mean, they were telling us not to have like the kids out at night.

Speaker 2: 5:04

Like Eureka springs high school kids love to walk around downtown I mean, if you guys have ever, you can look it up on your phone.

Speaker 3: 5:10

All the pedophiles now, oh jesus, what all right but um, you know, it was just, things like that just don't happen. Yes, we always say that things just don't, you know, they don't happen here, but they do happen they haven't everywhere.

Speaker 2: 5:22

They've been for years. The only thing that makes it different now is that we actually know about it, because we can all communicate to each other.

Speaker 3: 5:30

It was all over the newspaper, Our newspaper here in Eureka. It's maybe like five pages, it's not very big. So the investigation started with a local law enforcement obviously, and soon involved, obviously, into Arkansas State Police.

Speaker 2: 5:46

They worked diligently to collect evidence and piece together what happened, but early on the evidence suggested a struggle, because Alvord had multiple stab wounds indicating a violent encounter. The chaotic scene then showed that he fought back, at least Thank God. Of course, this is all according to the, you know, the news outlets that we've worked up, so can you imagine, though, the crime scene of that? It's gotta be bloody and gross. I mean, does everything beat to shit?

Speaker 3: 6:15

yeah, if you're stabbed to death. It's like cast off spatter and all that other stuff. I mean that's crazy. So over the next few years, the investigation took many turns. Obviously, on february 8th 2021, I say 21, this happened in 18, three men were arrested in connection to Alvarez's murder Joshua Anderson, charles Hanna and Jason Helm. I don't know why that name, jason Helm, sounds familiar to me. All the time.

Speaker 2: 6:38

I mean, they do live around here.

Speaker 3: 6:40

They were charged with first-degree murder and animal cruelty.

Speaker 2: 6:43

But, however, the case was far from resolved because in February 2023, a special prosecutor requested that the charges be dismissed without prejudice, allowing for the possibility of future charges. This came after new information significantly impacted the case.

Speaker 3: 7:06

I don't think they're going to tell us, because, whatever it is that investigation, is that new info? What?

Speaker 2: 7:10

did he do stab himself?

Speaker 3: 7:12

Well, think about it. If you don't want to let it out to the public, you let it out to the public.

Speaker 2: 7:15

Well, yeah, you have to have that secret. So when you find the person who actually did it yeah, close to the vest.

Speaker 3: 7:20

So let's discuss some of these theories. Like I told you, there's many of them. One theory is that the crime stemmed from a personal dispute, which sometimes can just happen. Alvred was known to be friendly, but could someone have a grudge against him?

Speaker 2: 7:33

And was he really friendly? That's the question. I mean, let's be open-minded about this. You know the friends and family in the community are not going to talk ill about someone who's dead.

Speaker 3: 7:44

True, there is like that taboo thing about talking about the dead. You should never talk negative about the dead. And so we're assuming this because it's what they say, because we've never met him personally obviously I wouldn't live in here that long enough to really get to know a whole lot of people.

Speaker 2: 7:58

So another theory suggests it might have been a robbery gone wrong, but the level of violence used excessive for a mere burglary. And think about it, though we both studied serial killers and the psychology behind it.

Speaker 3: 8:14

I wrote a paper on it in college, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:16

So we know that if they're just a robbery, they're going to do what they can to get the person person to stop, leave them alone so they can escape and get the hell out of there, or they're gonna kill them as quickly as possible because if they don't, then they got a problem but think about it.

Speaker 3: 8:37

I mean, we don't know what time that's happened. We can speculate, I guess. But this is at night. Most burglars happen during the day, when people are at work, right?

Speaker 2: 8:46

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 8:48

But if you think, I mean to me.

Speaker 2: 8:49

We don't know what time it was they found him. He was decomposing by the time they found him.

Speaker 3: 8:54

So I mean I'm thinking about it like that much stab wounds to cause such a bloody scene. That's almost personal, I mean, it's just a guess. So the suspects Anderson, hanna and Helm had various connections to the crime. Initially Anderson agreed to testify against Helm but later recanted, which dramatically changed the evidence against them. So that's probably why the special person Part of it. Yeah, yeah, I bet.

Speaker 2: 9:17

So each suspect had alibis and they obviously delved into their stories to figure out what they were doing, but none provided a definite answer, definitive answer. So the lack of conclusive evidence kept the case unresolved, I guess. Yeah, even though they were arrested and charged. I mean, one thing I know about prosecutors is they don't charge unless they're sure yeah.

Speaker 3: 9:41

Yeah, they don't want to lose.

Speaker 2: 9:42

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 9:43

I mean you've got to have a, but then again he left it open to possibility of later charges. What I don't understand is why do they have a special prosecutor? I don't know. Special prosecutors only happen when.

Speaker 2: 9:53

Well, there's not that many murderers out here too, True?

Speaker 3: 9:56

That special prosecutor has a, that current prosecutor has a, I guess you'd say a connection.

Speaker 2: 10:02

Well, he might have had a conflict of interest as far as maybe he didn't have time, maybe he's a volunteer half the time or something like that.

Speaker 3: 10:13

We don't know. Not much happens out here. That's what.

Speaker 2: 10:15

I mean, he may not have been on full-time payroll.

Speaker 3: 10:18

That's true.

Speaker 2: 10:19

And then he can't come in because he's got his actual clients.

Speaker 3: 10:22

In his private practice he's got to take take care of. That could happen too. Not enough experience, I mean. I don't want to fault anyone in Carroll County. You guys do an amazing job, but how many deaths do we have out here that you know? Do we investigate?

Speaker 2: 10:33

Murders, anyway, Murders yeah.

Speaker 3: 10:35

So let's dive a little bit deeper into the court proceedings and police reports to understand what happened next.

Speaker 2: 10:38

So the court proceedings were complex. It took unexpected turns and initially the three suspects were arrested in February 21 after three years. It took three years to even get these guys. They were charged with first-degree murder and cruelty. The cruelty of the animals is just like oh yeah, screw you, buddy. We're going to attack that on two, because it's what 30 days I mean? Come on.

Speaker 3: 11:03

Well, this is.

Speaker 2: 11:04

Arkansas. You know, we do have those statutes and I think if someone's like, I mean come on.

Speaker 3: 11:07

Well, this, this is Arkansas. We do have those statutes and I think, if someone's like, I mean think about it. If you love dogs and you see that this person hurt a dog, then by God you're going to tack that on too just because you can't.

Speaker 2: 11:17

Well, it helps the jury too.

Speaker 3: 11:19

Yeah, during the pretrial phase, Joshua Anderson initially agreed to testify against him. This testimony was crucial for the prosecution, but in August of 2022, he recanted his testimony which, like we said, it changed the whole entire prosecutor's case.

Speaker 2: 11:34

Yeah, this change led the special prosecutor to request a continuance, citing new critical information that had just come to light. This was a significant moment because the prosecution's case relied mostly on anderson's testimony but why would you recant either a?

Speaker 3: 11:52

you're lying, as you think if I say this.

Speaker 2: 11:55

Maybe somebody wrote a check, maybe, who knows?

Speaker 3: 11:57

get lesser charges or b.

Speaker 2: 11:59

Maybe he was threatened, maybe he was conjoined into giving false testimony by the police. That happens a lot.

Speaker 3: 12:07

I don't want to think that that happens here. I know it does, but it's like man.

Speaker 2: 12:11

Sometimes it happens by accident with just an inexperienced police person. You know.

Speaker 3: 12:15

Yeah, that's why everybody know your Miranda rights.

Speaker 2: 12:18

Yep.

Speaker 3: 12:19

The defense attorneys for the suspect argued that the continuance was unjust and that the case should proceed as planned, which I can understand. That they emphasize the right to a speedy trial, which that's one of our. That's a big thing that they argue.

Speaker 2: 12:31

Nobody gets a speedy trial anymore Are you kidding me.

Speaker 3: 12:34

Well, you got to understand.

Speaker 2: 12:36

Five years to prosecute a murder, I know, but Always.

Speaker 3: 12:40

They have to go through like what's called like giving all the evidence and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 12:45

That takes time.

Speaker 3: 12:46

Discovery exactly so pretty much. This led to a lot of delays.

Speaker 2: 12:53

Yeah, and in February 23, right, the special prosecutor filed a motion to dismiss the charges completely, which meant that the charges were going to be dropped but could be refiled if new evidence emerged and the prosecutor decided the lack of sufficient evidence to proceed at that time. Sufficient evidence they had enough to charge them.

Speaker 3: 13:17

I guess witness testimony or the but if your whole case is on witness testimony, I mean, is there not, like I don't believe, anybody's case?

Speaker 2: 13:23

should be built on witness testimony. I mean, is there not like I don't believe anybody's case should be built on witness testimony anymore? No, it's always reliable, unreliable, yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:29

Unreliable. Is there not DNA evidence? Is there not fingerprints?

Speaker 2: 13:32

Is there not hair?

Speaker 3: 13:33

Is there not fibers?

Speaker 2: 13:34

I mean, so we're going off the police reports here. I mean we pulled them up and looked at the police at the court trial. That's part of what we're quoting here.

Speaker 3: 13:43

So the dismissal was obviously controversial and pretty much made a lot of people in Eureka Springs upset. The families of the suspects in the community were all in a state of uncertainty. I mean we were all wondering like is justice ever going to be achieved? Are we safe? Do we live?

Speaker 1: 14:00

in a corrupt system which I hope to.

Speaker 3: 14:00

God not. The judge's decision to grant a dismissal was based on the prosecutor's affidavit that suggested the new evidence still might come to light. So the fact that they're just pretty much it's still open, it makes me wonder what are you waiting for?

Speaker 2: 14:14

Well, the police report indicates that the crime scene was particularly brutal. Albert suffered multiple stab wounds in his dog and was killed right. So the scene suggested a personal violent confrontation rather than a random act. So I guess it sounds like there's a lot of evidence there what happened to it.

Speaker 3: 14:35

I mean, you know, with all these cases which I think are kind of awesome in a way, like the Delphi murders, people were getting really the Delphi murders.

Speaker 2: 14:43

Yeah, delphi, where murders people were getting really the Delphi murders. The Delphi, that guy chased down those two kids.

Speaker 3: 14:49

Yeah, but remember how people were getting upset because there wasn't a whole lot of they weren't telling them a whole lot.

Speaker 2: 14:53

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:54

I remember I was reading something about that. Well, they're doing that on purpose because they want to catch the person. They don't want to cause evidence or leakage or any problems or anything you want to keep.

Speaker 2: 15:04

Well, when you've got those people that want to admit to murders they didn't really have anything to do with.

Speaker 3: 15:07

I don't think there's a lot of people that did that. Yep Alright. Despite the brutal brutality of the crime scene, forensic evidence was limited. How?

Speaker 2: 15:16

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: 15:17

No definitive DNA Evidence linked to suspects.

Speaker 2: 15:20

How could there be no definitive DNA?

Speaker 3: 15:22

I don't get that either. I mean evidence linked to suspects, If they stabbed them, that much you know.

Speaker 2: 15:27

They have their own wounds.

Speaker 3: 15:31

Yeah, your hand slips supposedly with a knife. Yeah, but physical evidence collected did not conclusively point to any of the three men. So what did you collect?

Speaker 2: 15:41

I don't know. It sounds like, maybe it didn't, I don't know. The lack of conclusive evidence, though, has been obviously an obstacle they're going to now. I mean, maybe there's some new forensic technologies or that could come through, or maybe the doodle. I'd like to know why he recanted. I want to know that?

Speaker 3: 16:03

Yeah, me too, because I mean we all watch these crime shows people. I mean everybody's watched. Like what Dateline and what's that Law and Order or whatever? Yeah, I mean no murder is solved in 30 minutes, guys, or an hour.

Speaker 2: 16:17

Exactly.

Speaker 3: 16:18

But you know like.

Speaker 2: 16:19

I don't know, Some up bar. I mean you walk in dude's dead Wife's holding the gun.

Speaker 3: 16:24

Well, you walk in dude's dead Wife's holding the gun.

Speaker 2: 16:26

Well, that's like you know.

Speaker 3: 16:27

But it makes me wonder, because we're in a small town, like other small towns. Maybe was the scene secured properly? I don't want to default to police because I live here and my life looks like I'm knocking on the door.

Speaker 2: 16:40

The problem that you're into is we don't know what the place looked like that he lived in. He could have been living in a dump with open air coming in from like a hole in his roof or something, which would completely wash away any DNA. There could be 50 cats in there. It could be cockroach ridden. There's a whole lot of things that could degrade evidence fast especially water, If there was water coming in then you're just done, or luminol the place. The water washed it all away.

Speaker 3: 17:13

But I think you can luminol and still get something can't you?

Speaker 2: 17:16

Well, it depends, I mean, how old is the crime scene? Yeah, I mean, see what? I mean? We don't know these things that we don't know. And because it's not like Florida, with Florida we can pull up all the records of a murder and we can read it all.

Speaker 3: 17:31

That's why I read Florida Florida man exists.

Speaker 2: 17:34

because of that, Arkansas is tight. That's why you don't hear a lot of true crime out of Arkansas.

Speaker 3: 17:41

That's true.

Speaker 2: 17:42

Because the facts aren't released. No one says anything. That's true Because the facts aren't released, no one says anything. So what we have to do is what we've had to do is go over all these different newspapers and TVs that have their. They have to have a transcript up for us to even look to see what the TV station reported.

Speaker 3: 17:59

I did call Arkansas State Police on this one.

Speaker 2: 18:03

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:03

And they wouldn't talk to me.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Yeah, they're not going to. It's the law that they can't.

Speaker 3: 18:09

I mean, I'm not saying, like you know, let's.

Speaker 2: 18:11

You have to call the prosecutor. I think is who you have to call.

Speaker 3: 18:14

I don't even know if they talk to us at all, I mean, Buy him lunch one day.

Speaker 2: 18:19

He's down there in Berryville, wear a short dress.

Speaker 3: 18:22

Oh Jesus, She'll talk to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:24

What.

Speaker 3: 18:25

Just because I'm a Casa doesn't mean that I got like that much.

Speaker 2: 18:28

No, I'm just talking to your chick. That's why, oh Jesus, paul, stop, obviously this murder has affected.

Speaker 3: 18:34

Eureka, we're very much on tourism. That's what keeps us alive.

Speaker 2: 18:46

You know, we have very much mom and pop businesses knowing that there's like a murder out there. It kind of tends to make people on edge.

Speaker 3: 18:49

Yeah, you think so. So there was vigils and memorials were held. I vaguely remember a few of those. Like I said, I just moved here.

Speaker 2: 18:57

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:57

So, basically, uncertainties lingered, but I think as it's progressed now, there's not so much of that in the air.

Speaker 2: 19:03

Yeah, it's been a long time, yeah, yeah, it's been a long time, yeah, yeah. So, as of today, what?

Speaker 3: 19:09

As of today, it remains officially unsolved, although the charges were brought against Anderson Hannon Helm. The dismissal basically leaves many questions unanswered and it leaves the case completely open. But they can be recharged.

Speaker 2: 19:20

Yeah. So the key questions are who killed Christopher Alvord and why right, and what new information came to light that changed the direction of the case. And what was Christopher Alvord into? A lot of the times you have to do victimology. Sometimes Victimology comes into a big deal right here, because what caused him to be in the situation that would get him murdered? A dispute, right, it could. Could be drugs, it could be anything it could be. They just hated him because there's people that hate me who have no real reason to hate me drugs drugs are big around here.

Speaker 3: 19:58

Drugs are big everywhere, but meth is pretty bad here um. Somebody was mad at him yeah, yeah um, I, I would. I want to say it's someone that knows him or close to him or knows his the idea of a he was stabbed a lot that to me that's personal yeah that's I mean. I'm no expert guys, I'm I'm just no.

Speaker 2: 20:21

No, we're all. Everybody listening here is just as you know. We're all armchair experts, but but you do have a degree in nursing yes, even though it's more management, you still had to become a nurse yeah and you also have, uh, your um degree in law yeah, my um.

Speaker 3: 20:42

I guess you'd say certificate slash, almost associates.

Speaker 2: 20:44

Yeah. So, so you do know more than you let on. Plus, you work. I mean your credentials are. You worked at the morgue.

Speaker 3: 20:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:53

You worked for the coroner.

Speaker 3: 20:55

To get through nursing school? Yeah, I did.

Speaker 2: 20:57

Yeah, that, and I was a nurse's assistant. So yeah, my credentials are. I just know a lot of really crazy people. Wow, and that's actually quite helpful because really I can understand how bad they are.

Speaker 3: 21:10

But I mean we try to, you know, look up um, basically the autopsy report, all that stuff is because it's still an open case, which is why we can't get. Well, it's also arkansas that's true, but to me that, if you're not walking into, uh, where he was, where he died, and essentially it looks like a bird, you know, basically a bloodbath, and to me that's personal.

Speaker 2: 21:29

Yeah, yeah, I mean. So there's more to it than that. I think there's just a lot of times out here in the woods people aren't some I feel it Not saying this about this case, but sometimes people aren't deemed important enough to investigate.

Speaker 3: 21:49

I hope that's not the case.

Speaker 2: 21:50

And it was in the past. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3: 21:54

For sure, probably in the past.

Speaker 2: 21:55

I hope we've evolved All the states evolved Well that's how black people ended up just random black people ended up in jail for murdering a white girl. Because they're not important enough, and the guy that did it is more important than this. So, because they're not important enough and the guy that did it is more important than this, so we just blame him, this poor dude that didn't have an education. Now he's in jail for the rest of his life for doing something he didn't even do, but his poor family though.

Speaker 3: 22:16

They want answers. I would want answers if I was them.

Speaker 2: 22:18

I know, but I mean, what are you going to do? The biggest thing is kind of the big takeaway from it is. The big takeaway from it is sometimes, as a citizen, we can't do anything about it.

Speaker 3: 22:34

No, but I just remember being very spooked.

Speaker 2: 22:38

Oh yeah, Well, I mean, he could have been one of the banjo players.

Speaker 3: 22:42

I doubt that. What For all our audience? I live a mile on a dirt road. Okay, the road basically ends at my house. And Paul thinks that this is like you know.

Speaker 2: 22:52

Deliverance? No, it's not deliverance.

Speaker 3: 22:55

He calls it glamping. We're not glamping.

Speaker 2: 22:57

Yeah, even your kids said it was that way.

Speaker 3: 22:59

It's not that bad.

Speaker 2: 23:00

You told your kids I want to go camping. They're like we are camping. We live out in the woods, we have air conditioning. That's not camping, but we are what?

Speaker 3: 23:10

Ten minutes from a grocery store? Six Six so that is not deliverance country.

Speaker 2: 23:16

I don't know. I don't know, I mean, you never know, you don't know where those batteries are.

Speaker 3: 23:22

Well.

Speaker 2: 23:23

You get Australia living down the road.

Speaker 3: 23:25

Yeah, but the guys this guy's I'm not going to bad mouth him because for all I know he could be a listener, but he's a very interesting individual.

Speaker 2: 23:33

Well, he shoots coyotes all night long and he doesn't wear clothes. Yeah, the neighbor was like, that dude came up here just wearing a loincloth and I was like what are you doing?

Speaker 3: 23:44

He closed clothes when he came up here.

Speaker 2: 23:45

Yeah, well, yeah, comes up here. Well, yeah, comes up here with no clothes. He's going to be chasing bird sheds True.

Speaker 3: 23:55

So if anybody has any, Listeners. If anybody from Carroll County Knows anything about this case, you're welcome to call the Arkansas State Police or the Carroll County Police office Police.

Speaker 2: 24:08

Office? I don't know. It's the Sheriff's Department. Sheriff's Department, you're just off today, aren't you?

Speaker 3: 24:13

Oh no, I'm not.

Speaker 2: 24:14

Eureka Springs.

Speaker 3: 24:16

I would say go to Carroll County.

Speaker 2: 24:18

I would say call the Arkansas State Police first.

Speaker 3: 24:21

If you have any thoughts, saw anything, your theories, whatever, this case needs help.

Speaker 2: 24:27

I've been gumpered. There's really I'd like to know a little bit more about it, but there's really not much more because it's all freaking closed up Most of the cases in Arkansas when I tried to go find some cold cases. There's just no information.

Speaker 3: 24:42

But if we do get new information, we can definitely update our listeners.

Speaker 2: 24:46

Oh, that's true. I suppose that's true.

Speaker 3: 24:48

That's true.

Speaker 2: 24:49

You could text them, because there's like six you stall. But we're back, guys, if you want to just listen to us fight or whatever we're doing, that's okay too. So one of the things that I wanted to cover I wanted to learn a little bit more about the nuclear power, Nuclear, nuclear nuclear.

Speaker 3: 25:14

Is it the one you were telling me? How did George?

Speaker 2: 25:15

Bush say that I can't remember.

Speaker 3: 25:17

That it's small now, like it's not this gigantic. It's not like you think, like if Chernobyl or Three Mile Island or whatever they're smaller, now right?

Speaker 2: 25:25

Yeah, and they can't melt down. It's impossible for them to melt down.

Speaker 3: 25:29

I'm sure our environmental listeners are just screaming in the background.

Speaker 2: 25:32

no, Physics are physics. Man Can't beat math.

Speaker 3: 25:36

I know nothing about that, so I wouldn't mind learning about that.

Speaker 2: 25:39

That's the kind of stuff we're going to be talking about in the future. I know you wanted to do true crime stuff, but I just like arkansas is kind of neglected well the reason for it you can't get anything out. When I tried to get facts out of this thing and all I can get was what the press put out there. Because once the the press finds stuff out because people have loose lips and it's just happening in the press it asks you know they ask, but when?

Speaker 2: 26:04

they, and they say something they shouldn't, and that's the only way they get the information.

Speaker 3: 26:07

I guess what made me want to do cold cases is I'd take my kids to my Calistro, oklahoma, to see their dad and we're at a gas station I don't remember where we were. Weber Falls or something like that and I'm looking at this gigantic cork board of missing people from I-40 and I remember being like I-40 and being completely mind blown by that yeah, and I'm just sitting well, and it was I brought you.

Speaker 2: 26:32

It brought it to your attention because I'm standing there looking at this board, going wow and these are young people crazy around my kids, yeah, and I said come here, come here, come here. And we were looking at them. I was like what? And I remember there's like 15.

Speaker 3: 26:47

One piece of advice my uncle gave me that was a truck driver is you know driving those things about make sure your car is in order? And I remember him one time telling me about you know, don't pump gas at night. And da, da, da, da, da. But it makes me think. Like my kids are going to go to and from college. I mean my son's going to be coming up to visit and then it makes my other kids going off to college. It makes me like they have no voice anymore. You're on a major highway. They can just pick you up and you're gone.

Speaker 2: 27:17

I mean, it's it, just the board was overwhelming and sad at the same time, and then to realize that I spent two weeks living in my car in huntington beach, california, and you lived out of your car. For how long?

Speaker 3: 27:29

30 days.

Speaker 2: 27:30

Yeah, in Michigan.

Speaker 3: 27:31

Yeah, not smart people. Yeah, I could have been one of those statistics, me too.

Speaker 2: 27:36

Well, I was fortunate, the Orange County Sheriff guy came by every two hours and checked on me. Nah he knocked on the window and said you doing okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's LA. Yeah, that said you doing okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:47

Because it's LA, yeah, yeah, so I don't know it. Just I feel like people in this state need a little bit more of a voice. Even true crime podcasts don't typically cover Arkansas.

Speaker 2: 27:56

Well, again, we're going to have to figure something out with the release of information, because they're tight-lipped.

Speaker 3: 28:02

The Railway Killer book I'm reading that would be cool to talk about.

Speaker 2: 28:06

I'd have to read it though. Yeah, this isn't one from out of, which means I'd have to actually read.

Speaker 3: 28:10

This is from out of the 30s. I don't want to read. You can read.

Speaker 2: 28:13

You can read it to me. How about that?

Speaker 3: 28:16

Oh Jesus.

Speaker 2: 28:16

No.

Speaker 3: 28:17

Let's go to class. Paul, I'm gonna read your book.

Speaker 2: 28:21

Oh, it reminds me of that Van Halen song oh, oh gosh, I got it made, got it made, got it made.

Speaker 1: 28:27

I'm a all my trade publications and sit my teeth till it is all done. I think it's all fun. I need to know everything who and the what and the where. I need everything. Trust me, I hear what you're saying, but I like it's new what you're telling me. I'm curious, george. I hop in the Porsche Five and a horse. I'm ready for war. I'm coming for ghosts, eternal ghosts. I need to know everything, everything.