Banjos, Bombs, and Bathtub Drownings: A Tour of Arkansas Crime

Ever wondered what dark secrets lurk beneath the surface of America's quiet small towns? In this episode, Paul and Andrea pull back the curtain on two shocking criminal cases from Northwest Arkansas that time has nearly forgotten.

The conversation begins with a puzzling 1972 case where Lieutenant Carl Martins, a young Springdale police officer, survived when a bomb detonated under his car right at the police station. Despite involvement from the FBI, ATF, and even a grand jury investigation, the case went cold with surprising speed. Why would someone attempt a mob-style hit in a town of barely 30,000 people? And why did the story fade from newspapers after just six mentions? The hosts theorize about possible motives while planning to file Freedom of Information Act requests to uncover the truth behind this mysterious attempted murder.

Even more disturbing is the 1974 murder spree of Shirley Marie Curry, a mother who, enraged over losing custody of her children, embarked on a killing rampage across multiple towns. In a single evening, she murdered her two sons, her ex-husband, her daughter, and her ex-husband's half-sister before attempting to kill a sixth victim. When captured, her chilling question to officers—"I missed the sixth one, didn't I?"—revealed her calculated bloodlust. Despite the severity of her crimes, she was initially declared mentally ill and legally irresponsible before eventually spending the remainder of her life in prison.

These forgotten cases reveal how even seemingly quiet communities harbor dark histories that rival more notorious crime capitals. Join Paul and Andrea as they resurrect these cold cases and discuss what they tell us about America's hidden criminal past. Have stories like these been buried in your hometown too? Visit paulgnewton.com for more content as they continue their investigation into these Arkansas mysteries.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Life Updates
• 8:15 Marriage and Name Changes
• 14:40 "Things I Wanna Know Voices" Series
• 20:42 The 1972 Springdale Car Bombing
• 27:12 Shirley Marie Curry's Murder Spree
• 41:23 Missing Persons and Highway Cases
• 48:10 Closing Thoughts and Website Promotion

Transcript

Song: 0:08

I need to know everything. Who in the what and the where I need everything. Trust me, I hear what you're saying, but I like this knew what you're telling me. I'm curious, George. I'm happy to pull it.

Paul G: 0:23

So welcome to things. I wanna know. Yeah, we're letting him talk up their still using the curious George song. I wanna know. I don't know. I don't know. You wanna know?

Andrea: 0:36

I guess I wanna know.

Paul G: 0:38

So Andrea is here with me. Andrea has had a recent change. We both had a recent change, actually. I moved into Andrea's house.

Andrea: 0:48

Well, you moved in when we lived in Eureka Springs.

Paul G: 0:51

Yeah, but I was doing living in Fayeville when all this first started.

Andrea: 0:54

No, I think we did some podcasts at Adult House.

Paul G: 0:56

At the adult house?

Andrea: 0:58

Old House.

Paul G: 0:59

Old House. Yes. I was like, well, I guess it could have been

Andrea: 1:02

because I remember we had to work off the kitchen table and the internet and we were talking to somebody.

Paul G: 1:08

And the cats.

Andrea: 1:09

And the cats, yes. They would like to walk across and annoy the hell out of Paul. Pretty much.

Paul G: 1:15

Yes, very much so. And now I have an office.

Andrea: 1:19

And I have an office.

Paul G: 1:20

Yes, but your door's always open.

Andrea: 1:22

Well, I have cats. Anybody who has cats understands.

Paul G: 1:26

Yeah, I don't care. The cats can offend. And they don't bug me.

Andrea: 1:29

No, but you get mad when they don't like you.

Paul G: 1:32

No. I don't get mad when they don't like me. Not anymore. Because there's two of them. They won't leave me alone.

Andrea: 1:37

Oh, yeah, that's true.

Paul G: 1:38

We have a cat named Bitchy Kitty.

Andrea: 1:40

Which I know sounds awful, but that's the only name she responds to.

Paul G: 1:43

Well, she's is she or is she not a bitchy cat?

Andrea: 1:48

She is kind of a bitchy cat.

Paul G: 1:50

Just kind of a bitchy cat? You look at her strange and she goes, What? Exactly. Exactly. And then so we've moved back into civilization. I I no longer have to turn the limiters on on the microphones to drown out the banjos that played in the background when we were recording out in Eureka.

Andrea: 2:08

It was not that bad. It was not that bad. To him, civilization is being within Walmart within 10 minutes.

Paul G: 2:16

No, no.

Andrea: 2:18

You like the fact that we moved to Pea Ridge,

Paul G: 2:20

but we had a grocery store within 10 minutes of where we were in

Andrea: 2:24

Yeah, but I'm talking like Walmart or something that doesn't like jack up prices.

Paul G: 2:29

Well, it's out there too, though. It was it's better now because out there they had maybe a tooth instead of teeth. Oh some of the people.

Andrea: 2:38

Oh god stop. People had teeth.

Paul G: 2:41

Yeah, one.

Andrea: 2:42

Oh Lord, it's not that bad. It really was not that bad.

Paul G: 2:45

Between the banjos and the helitosis, I didn't know what to do. Oh Lord. Sorry, Eureka Springs. Well, we all know it's not that bad. I'm also I I can't remember. I've told everybody I'm an ass.

Andrea: 2:58

Not an asshole.

Paul G: 2:59

That's right. There's a difference. There's a difference between an ass and an asshole. Anyhow.

Andrea: 3:04

Yeah, we also had some other changes.

Paul G: 3:07

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that?

Andrea: 3:09

We got married.

Paul G: 3:10

Oh, we did?

Andrea: 3:11

Yes, in May.

Paul G: 3:14

I I attempted to stay completely drunk the entire time.

Andrea: 3:17

Uh well, you we had fun at the reception.

Paul G: 3:19

Actually, you were more drunk than I am.

Andrea: 3:21

Well, it was nerve-wracking.

Paul G: 3:23

The last time I drank was at the wedding.

Andrea: 3:25

Yeah, that's true.

Paul G: 3:26

Which was in May. May, yeah.

Andrea: 3:28

Yeah, but we're married, so I have a new last name.

Paul G: 3:31

New last no, you're not yet.

Andrea: 3:33

Hey, for anybody out there to change your name, it's a big pain in the butt. You have to go, uh, go to the social security office. You have to make an appointment, and then you take that, and then you have to take it, get your driver's license, and then everything else changes. But it took three months to get to the social security office.

Paul G: 3:48

And you still haven't got your driver's license because you have to make an appointment for that too.

Andrea: 3:51

Yeah, and that's in two weeks, three weeks, something like that. So in October.

Paul G: 3:54

It's in so it's still not final.

Andrea: 3:56

It's lot final in the eyes of Social Security. That's enough.

Paul G: 4:00

We were up at the uh up at the uh um office getting the marriage license, and they made us sign an affidavit that if we didn't bring it back within a hundred or a hundred or ninety days. Ninety days, yeah. 90 days of of getting the license and getting married. We had 90 days. That they I'd have to pay $150 for not bringing it back. And I looked at her and said, Oh, I see. So it's a uh return fee if I don't, if I need to not if I want to return it. I forgot the word you use it. You used a uh uh um 90-day nine nine, what was it? 90-day uh trial period. Yeah, 90-day trial. It was a 90-day trial, like you get on the internet, you know. You get a 90-day trial, you get it, you don't have to pay it for three months. Yeah, and when we brought the marriage license back, the whole ladies thought it was funny when you told them that there there is a trial or you got it back before. There is a trial. I got it back before the trial was over, so I guess I'll take it. My thing is like if you don't return it, what are they gonna do? Uh put a warrant out for 150 bucks? Send you a bill for the 150 dollars. That's hilarious. And people won't pay it, so I don't understand how that's even. But you know, it's just a restocking fee. I don't know. I you're not paying attention to my jokes. Restocking fee. I asked the girls, I said, is there is there a waiting period or like a uh you know, return period or something like that of change of mind? And they're like, no. I and so we go goofed off about that for a minute, but then they told me if I don't bring it back in 90 days, they charge me 150 bucks. I said, so if I don't, so if I want don't bring it back before 90 days, it's 150 bucks. They're like, yeah. So that means there is a trial period. Yes, and you had the whole office laughing. If I just don't bring it back, I'm not married. Doesn't get entered into the uh Washington or Benton County record. That's true, yeah. So you're not married. That's hilarious, though. But 90-day waiting period. 90-day waiting period. No, no, no, no, not any 90-day trial period. Trial period. Yes, trial period with a $150 restocking fee. Restocking fee. Put me back on the shelf. No, no, no, yeah. Back in the box. In the box. In the box. I'm sure there's lots of people out there that have they're screaming at the radio right now. Shut up, bitch. You're saying these things. I'm just kidding, people. Come on, have you met me? Probably not, but if you did, you'd be like, eh, he's just screwing around. It's just Paul. Yeah, I'm an ass. Not an asshole. But not an asshole. Because I actually did bring the marriage certificate back to be recorded within a week of being married. Yeah, we did. We got it clear. So there. I don't think anybody really cares. They might. Anyways, what are we going to be talking about today? I don't know. What are we talking about today? Wait, I do know there's one thing we need to talk about. And it's what I've been doing called Things I Wanna Know Voices. Oh, yes, I'm that's correct. And you really haven't had anything to do with that because I've been wanting to record some stuff and write some stories because I do a lot of writing. You can follow me on Substack, Paul G. Newton on Substack. Uh, and all my writings there. I got some really cool stories laying around there too. You you do have some good stuff on there. Uh I did a whole series on Vatican Rat lines, which is where they snuck Nazis out of Germany at post-World War II. Uh the the Catholic Church was in on it. Yeah, I do know that. It's kind of a dark stain on the Well at the same time, it's a good story that I wrote because it was, you know, it's basically you learn about the rat lines without actually having to learn. It's just a thing. And then I got the story about Finland where they're stealing oil. That one's good. You should really elaborate more on that. Well, you know, I haven't had anybody read on it. But what I've been doing lately uh is the voices for the podcast. And uh where it's telling the stories, and I've told the story about uh kind of like in history daily kind of style. Which is a nice format. Well, it's yeah, but it's also my spin on it because I'm not really doing it like them, you know, because they have voices and sound uh you know, some stuff like that. Um like I don't have extra people, it's just me. So I have to just read it. Well, I did one on um oh gosh, the the penicillin guy. Oh no, that one was interesting though, because we all know about penicillin and you know how it came to be and it revolutionized medicine and and everything like that. But your little spin on it, I think is kind of cool how you but it was the way it happened though. Yeah. It's just we don't know about that whole story because it took him he he discovered it 10-15 years before it even got used. Yeah, when he tried didn't he try it on himself? No, he didn't try it on himself. But uh he might have, but he just didn't tell anybody he was doing that. I mean it revolutionized medicine and you know now it's a very common drug allergy. Well, it probably was then too, if you think about that. Well, maybe. I mean, everybody could be allergic to something. It doesn't matter if it's food or if it's uh medicine or if it's an insect or anything like that. I'm allergic to a lot of things. Oh, really? I hate to uh I was I don't know. I'm allergic to penicillin, so I'm allergic to jerks. Oh, yeah, that's probably true. Yeah. Because I have this really strong reaction when somebody's an asshole around me. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't go well. Asses I can tolerate because you know I'm used to it because I talk to myself the same way I talk to everybody else. They're bitch picturing you talking to yourself with a mirror. Oh no, I don't need a mirror. Oh, you don't need a mirror. It's an internal dialogue. I have an in I have a very vivid imagination. That's why you write. That's also why I argue with myself. Oh well, yeah. And uh the weirdest part was one time I slapped myself. Please tell me to do that literally. Okay, I won't tell you. Okay, that sounds good. All right, what's this story? But the the the voices though, uh what do you think about what I've been doing? Because you haven't been involved in it. I've just been listening to it as you've been doing it in your office, and I'm in mine, but I think I mean we tried to bomb them. We were gonna send a nuclear weapon to the moon and set it off. I think that is the most asinine, stupid thing we could have possibly. Carl Sagan was in on that. That's just hello. The moon changes our tides and like helps our oceans. Yeah, don't don't fuck with the moon. Don't fuck with the moon. You know, if we terraform the moon and put a bunch of water up there, it would change its weight. And if we put enough water on the moon to actually make an ocean, it might screw with our oceans. Yeah, but what's bombing the moon gonna show anybody that we're like? No, they're gonna show the Russians that we can blow them up. Or that or think we're idiots. Well, they were trying to do the same thing. Well, yeah. So listen to that one. It's a brand well, I didn't know anything about it until he started doing some research and stuff on it. Yeah. And I was like, I'm then glad. I'm glad that you know they didn't do that. I got this really interesting thing I'm thinking about about Castro. Oh, yeah, Mr. Castro. Yeah, Cuba. I'm doing some research into that because I think it'd be interesting to know just how many times he's been uh an assassination attempt has been attempted on Mr. Cuba Castro. I think you told me it was a huge amount, and I kept thinking if we don't want to advertise how many times we screwed up, it's way past a hundred guys. They broke it, they didn't do it good on any of them. It's missed every time. That's we don't need to be advertised. He's either that or he's you know, he can replicate himself. Who knows? Maybe he's an alien. I don't know. Yeah, see there now you're onto something. But I don't know. I when he told me that, you got when you when you got when he puts it out, listen to it, because I remember going, that is not something that the FBI really wants to advertise how many times they screwed up. So I guess now we're kind of getting into the meat of things. We're supposed to go in back to what you're here for, what everyone's listening for, right? Yes. Bring on the suspense. I do this live, just so you know. It's uh I got a little bored over here, but it keeps stopping on recording. I don't know. I don't get it. It's like, hello, technology. You love it or you hate it. Or it hates you. I agree with that. I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens. Yes. So you know, Springdale, Arkansas. I grew up in Springdale. She grew up in Rogers. Mm-hmm. Springdale, maybe when I graduated high school, I had maybe 40,000 people. What was it, Rogers? 25? I honestly don't know. I just wanted out, I think. Well, I know how many graduating my class, but I don't remember how many was the time. We had 500 and something. So it was pretty big. Yeah. Well, I compersed people were have were perkurating much more than Springdale's people. Oh God. I don't want to think about that. Because you're only 25,000 versus 40,000, and you have the same amount of class. I mean, come on. Uh we were a little bit more, I think. Randy. Roll out here. What are you gonna do? Randy. There's nothing to do. Yeah, but that's the thing, is there's nothing to do. There's more babies born. That's true. I mean, now there's the population's going down because boys are like, no, I have video games, go away. Well, COVID, they didn't have anything to do, and there was a big COVID baby boom. COVID babies, yeah. They're in Kevin. I thought a COVID baby. When you say COVID baby, I just think of like a green monster with like weird eyes. No, I just know that's awful. That it's a COVID baby, run. You know, a lot of parents were didn't have anything to do when babies came later, so and but back in 1972, neither one of us were here. No, I was born in 77. Yeah, and I was not born in 72. Actually, I'm 497 years old, so but I was living somewhere else. Oh, yeah. Yes, in your own planet. Yes, no, I'm not a Mormon. Thank you very much. I'm sorry for you, Mormon Mormon listeners. Well, he's not being being I'm not nice, I'm an ass, remember? Yeah, he's not trying to be completely mean, so don't block me. I'm not being asshole. I'm just being an ass. Yes, you're Paul. Yes, I'm Paul. Thank you very much. And for uh, you know, once our therapy session is almost over. Um, anyway. But back in 1972, there was this like mob style thing going on at the police, Springdale Police Department of all things. And when we're talking a police department that has maybe probably about 30 people working there, because the town wasn't that big in 72. It's probably 25,000, 30,000. Yeah, that's probably about right. Maybe not even that. So when you think of mob style, what goes to your head instantaneously? Well, they had the uh uh, oh, it was Rhode Island. Uh, what's the town in Rhode Island? Uh the one that um um Providence, Providence, Rhode Island. It it there was a whole podcast about Providence, Rhode Island, uh called Crimetown. And those guys blew each other up with car bombs all the time. They didn't like somebody, they put a car bomb in his car and boom, it blew up. That's how they killed him. Or they take him out in the woods and you know, kill him and give them the pigs. They did that too. Yeah, you know, pigs will eat anything. Well, almost anything. Yeah, that's true. Never mind. Anyhow, let's move on. Um but car bombs is how they got rid of people they wanted to go away in Providence. And who knew Providence, Rhode Island was that big of a mob town? It was a huge mob town. The mayor of Rhode Island or Providence, Rhode Island, was freaking involved in the mob. Yep. He killed a guy in his in his house with the fire poker, fireplace poker, the mayor of Providence, and didn't go to jail for it. Well, Arkansas's not quite that. No, no. See, you asked me what I'm talking about, mob well, that's what I'm thinking about. But so we had a car bombing in 1972 on a police attempted murder on a police officer. Yes, the bomb was found underneath his car. I mean, underneath his the his side of the car, the driver's side. Yeah, his driver's seat. And he was backing out and kaboom. Yeah, he was leaving work. He's been on shift all night. Yeah, he was a lieutenant. What was his name? Uh his name is Carl Martins. Carl Martins. Yeah, he was a lieutenant, wasn't he? Yeah, if I remember correctly, yeah. You were saying he was like really young to be a lieutenant. I want to say he was in his mid-20s when I read this. We we we love newspapers.com, by the way. Well, she does. I don't because they don't tell me everything. Well, they're not they're not omnipotent like I asked them to be. It is newspapers, and it was the 70s, so you know omnipotent newspapers, yeah, something like that. But, anyways, you know, our thought processes was what why would there be a bomb? Why would there like why would you bomb a police office? And then Springdale freaking Arkansas, it's like Podunk City, you know, central. But you know, my first thought was, oh, he's got a pissed-off wife or ex-girlfriend or something on the side or something, and she's not happy. And who knows? Maybe they put it in the wrong car. That could be we're not we're not actually we're just gonna throw around some theories because there is no answer to this case. I mean, they they went on for a year, a year, and they couldn't find anybody. They had a grand jury for this guy. There was the FBI involved, ATF, ATF involved, and nobody can find anything. I find that very odd. Yeah, yeah. There's no records anywhere. So we probably what we're gonna do, what I want to do when we're done here is I think I'm gonna put in a FOIA request. Yeah, let's do it. I mean, let's just see what happened. All they'll do is probably send us a piece of paper, which is a bunch of black, like mark sharpies. I don't know, Arkansas might send it to us because they're pretty open. I mean, Arkansas just recently had started allowing the the dash cam footage for their car chases for the state police. It's it before they weren't allowed, and the governor changed the governor changed it. Yeah, so that's probably why Arkansas's on some cop shows. Well, that's right. That's why the Florida man exists, because Florida Man has a law that says they have to release everything. Nothing can be held redacted unless it's going to help them solve the crime. Like, you know, we know we know he wore gloves, but he also wore a clown mask. Yeah. And they just say, no, a man, a gloved man killed this person. They don't say a glove, clown masked man. Yeah. And so that way they held something back so they can, you know. Yeah, I can get the person who did it. But you know, he just gets this bomb, and so and it disappears pretty much in the papers. What what uh they had forever. Like a year later, they maybe brought something, if I remember correctly. Yeah. It wouldn't like you would think like something like this in the 70s would be on the front page of the newspapers for weeks. And it was barely there. It was barely there. It was only let's say one, two, three, four, five, six, six times did it even make the paper. Yeah. And it was uh I mean, they get it. What really what makes me interested in this thing is not that it's a bombing, not that his girlfriend is upset because of or whatever. It couldn't, we're not passing blame on anybody. We're we're just kind of like we don't know anything, so we're like trying to figure this out. So these are the things that come to mind. Yeah, like that, or was you know, in the 70s, it's everybody knows the 70s is drugs. Yeah. I mean, we the 70s show. I've watched a little bit of that. They sit all sit around the sm circle and they're all smoking weed. I mean, that's what you think of when it's that's what you think of as a season. That's not what I think of when I think of the 70s. I mean, I was born in the other part of the 70s, so all I have references, like pictures of my parents and like what I read about. I mean, I don't have any reference. Documentaries and things like that. John Wayne Gacy, DTK, bell bottom jeans and long hair parted down the middle, that kind of stuff. But so I was I was willing to let it go and say, no, this is not something that's interesting at all. But for somebody to blow up a car and then at the police station trying to kill a cop who's a lieutenant, next this next stop is being a detective, right? Which I don't think he ever became a detective. He might not wanted to be either. There's not a whole lot of information we have on this gentleman, and and and maybe that's for his own benefit a good thing. I think he may be still alive, actually, too. But the same thing. Maybe we could talk to him and get an interview him on the podcast. That'd be kind of cool. That would be. But the sad thing is, is like, you know, nowadays, if something like that was to happen, it would be like national news. Yeah, it'd be like all over the place. Well, depending upon where the where it happened, but you know, not everyone. Well, if it bleeds, it leads. That's the mantra of uh the modern and back then, even. But another thing we found out was the fact that a grand jury was issued. That's what made me most suspicious. There's a grand jury about this going on. So grand juries used to what are if there's a pretty much they they put it in front of people if there's enough and these random people picked their evidence the prosecutor does, and if they the people in this jury feel like there's enough to convict someone, then they go with charges. Right. And it didn't come of anything. No, but it was also a grand jury into that and other type of jury. I want those grand jury notes. I want to know what he presented. I don't know if we could. I don't know. I've never been on a court connect for anything other than like, you know, uh family stuff, but I've never been on there for like Freedom of Information Act, though. I should be able to get a hold of it, you think? I would think, but I mean, uh I've never ever sorry, the the the storage building burned down. There are no records. That's what they did with my grandfather's service record. Yeah, this is a little different. But again, you know, I think you have to prove like why it's important. I don't we've never done this. I think you have to. I think you just ask for it because the way I was reading a FOIA request is I've never done one. We'll let you all know how we'll let you how know how it goes. Well, what I used to work for 4029, ABC affiliate. I was their chief editor for about five years. And that's what they that's their bread and butter is FOIA. Makes sense. I mean so I you do get some things. I mean, but the here's the other thing, though, too. When you combine that, that there's a grand jury, so there's something going on that they're trying to convict somebody. Or or let me see if I remember correctly, that weren't they kind of like wanting to know like, is there any sinister activity between the police department and drug activity? Possibly, possibly, because the FBI got involved. And so did, you know, and so did the ATF. And when it comes to police municipalities, the way it's supposed to work, and I'm not saying this is the way it does work, but the way it's supposed to work is that the Arkansas State Police is then supposed to investigate the police office, police officers.

Andrea: 22:52

Yeah, right?

Paul G: 22:53

That's the hierarchy. And then if the Arkansas State Police can't figure it out, then it goes to the FBI. But only if the FBI finds the FBI can't come on unless they are crossing state lines or doing some kind of federal crime. It has to be linked to something. So if the FBI has charge over bank robberies, kidnappings, and multi-state crimes. Correct. But after that, they have to be asked to be on the site. But my thing is I don't I would like to believe there's nothing sinister because why would you put that in front of a grand jury? Wait, so if you the police department's messed up, I'm not saying that it is, but let's just say hypothetically that it's something to do with that. Why would you want to put that in front of a grand jury to just put a big bullet on your head of hey, we're messing up? And this is 50 years ago, too. So the times are completely different. I would like to think that that would be something that would be hushed under the rug and never addressed. They would, yeah. If there was something going on in the police department, they'd just be like, Yeah. But he still remained a cop. Yes. So he didn't, they didn't think he was doing anything wrong. Mm-mm. No, I don't think so. But the weird thing is, is like she's drinking wine. Yes, I am. I'm just whining. Yes, you're not. Hey! Hey, hey, hey, hey. But I'm like, I'm like curious, like what what happened? Why was nobody convicted? You know, did he give somebody like like in a case, make somebody mad? They get went to jail or the you know, a prison, or was he on loan to the FBI as a as a undercover agent and went back there and they figured out how he was and bombed him? I mean, any of these things could be possible because we don't know. I would like to think that if you got a traffic ticket, you wouldn't be so angry you'd bomb the cop and give it to you. But if you go back to 1972, 1973, 1974, uh Springdale, Arkansas, it kind of was that way, I think, because we have this one crazy, a crazy bitch. I'm just gonna say it right now. Yeah, I uh yeah, she's Shirley Marie Curry. Yeah, I know she lived in Lowell, which is just north. Between like Rogers and Springdale. It's if you're if you mean by it's basically like one town to the next town to the next town on a highway, if you think about it that way. But this lady basically, you know, got married like everyone in the does, or in those days, the 70s, a lot of people got married. Yeah, to Jimmy Lee Curry. And then she was she was born in 1936. So, I mean, she's she's a little older than yeah, she's about 10 years older than than most boomers. And you know, she has three kids uh a girl and then two boys. Sabrina, Richard, and Jesse, who are we can talk about because they're not around. Oh, okay. You know, think about it, they're not there, and so she has these kids, and then I guess you know, 1967, the marriage probably didn't do so well, and they got a divorce. Yeah. And from what I understand, it was pretty much uh, you know, a nasty custody dispute. Well, they had they had they they had sharing. They were Yeah, they had something in their divorce. She kept all three kids. She did initially, but there was some clause in the divorce decree that says when a children turn 14, they can make a decision on where they want to go. I think that's still law today because we It's not it's not in all decrees, but it is a law that if you bring them to court, then they can, you know, go in from the judge and they can make a decision. But unless it's like written in the decree, uh you have to go back to court to get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it but if it's in the decree, they can just sign a paper and saying this is what I want to do and done. So yeah, it's probably it's probably true. I mean, I don't know. I I just thought it was interesting. Like, this is in her decree. And I'm like, oh wow, that's kind of interesting. And so, um, so when her daughter turned 14, decided she wanted to live with her dad. And I guess for this poor Shirley lady, she didn't handle that very well. She was kind of upset, kind of angry, and uh, I guess probably a couple years went by and she thought her sons were gonna do the same thing. Because when the next son is turning 14. Yeah, that's correct. He was 13, and then he turned 14. And let's just say I think she was afraid that things were gonna repeat themselves. So in June 19th, 1974, that evening, uh she was so full of animosity and resentment that Shirley then embarked on a murder spree. That lasted from her basically all the way from Lowell to West Fork. Yeah. So she started at her house and she killed both her sons. Yes. Killed them both. Yeah. And then got in her car, drove across town to Springdale, where she went to her ex-husband's house, this Jimmy guy. And killed him. And called her daughter out and said, It's mom and shoots her. Yeah. She's like, Who's there? It's your mother. Boom. And that crazy. That's I don't know how they know that. I guess she told them that in the later on. Probably she confessed to some of it, I'd imagine. Yeah. Then she drove all the way over to the home of Joanne Brody, Jimmy's half sister. Jimmy's half sisters, not even his sister. Has nothing to do with any of this. Yeah, and shot shot and killed her. Shot and killed her. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. What the heck is going on? And then she drove to I guess if she wouldn't have done. No, she wasn't done. How many? She's got six or five now. She's killed five people in the matter of about three hours. Yeah. Nobody has a clue what's going on. No. The cops don't know. There's no 911 back then. No. It's you know, you have to call zero, tell the operator, give me the police. Or you have to know the police number. Yeah, you had yeah, it was in the phone book. Yeah, maybe there was 911 in New York City, but there was no 911 in Lowell Springdale, West Fork. I don't even remember when we got 911. I really it was 80s, late 80s, I think. Yeah, because I remember my parents teaching us how to like dial zero and what to say if there was an emergency, if something happened. Or like an we're in the phone book to look for the police number. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had to you had to put the you had to look it up every time. Yeah, you had to look it up, yeah. And then they had one for like emergencies and then one for non-emergencies. Yeah, they still have the non-emergency numbers, but now the emergency number is just 911. But I do know that when you call 911 uh from a cell phone, good luck getting to the right pre right place.

Song: 29:09

Really?

Paul G: 29:10

Because I've called 911 in the past, uh, because there's I had this one woman who was crossing the street by my old work. Oh, this lady was so sad. Oh yeah. This one lady, this girl in this in this van was on her phone. This lady, this little old lady's trying to cross the street and she just smacks her, knocks her. She knocked her about 30 feet. She's just sliding flat on the pavement, just just spinning. When you went in the store, I thought you were gonna talk about one of your ex-girlfriends. What? For a minute you said this woman, and I was thinking, oh no, it's gonna be an ex-girlfriend store. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't have I never called 911 of my ex girlfriends. I don't know. You dated some crazies. Oh, I dated some crazies, but they also knew who they were dealing with, and they just said, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't, you know, Paul says, We're done. We're done. I mean, yeah. Have you met me? Yeah. People out there have not, but trust me, it's Paul. Yeah. When I make up my mind, it's done. It's over. I'm through. But uh no, this woman should get hit by this fan. This woman's texting. And I called 911 and got like Rogers. They had to transfer me over to Springdale. I hope things have improved for that because everybody's got a cell phone. Nobody has a landline. It depends on where the tower's at. Oh, yeah. Wherever the tower picks up, then it says that's where it's that's it's gonna choose to send. Maybe if maybe if we put some AI on that, it would get to the right place faster. It didn't take very much longer, but it still burned about 30 seconds. 30 seconds can mean someone's life. That woman did not survive. Poor thing. Well, she she got I was yelling at everybody, leave her alone, leave her alone, don't move her because I didn't know she had a back injury, a head injury. Don't move her. You move them if there's like something like it's gonna cause things in if she was on she was close to a fire, across a fire or water or something else, it's gonna cause her immediate death. And yeah, move them, but you don't want to move somebody unless you know what she was doing. She was breathing, she was gasping, and that agnal breathing you were talking about. That's what she was doing. She was dying there. It took her like almost a week. Oh, that's awful. Yeah, it was pretty awful. She never came out with a coma, though, so hopefully she never noticed. Still, it's sad. I know. In the words, don't text and draft people. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. They called me up and said they were trying to get me to testify on that behalf of the lady driving. And I'm like, no, she told me when she got out of the car. I looked down at my phone for just a second and boom, I hit her. I was like, Yeah, that's what happens. Yeah, not good for you know, you're not a good witness for the prosecution. I mean you're a good witness for the prosecution, but not for the defense attorney. It's not a good thing for the defense. But uh, yeah, so this so after she killed these five people, she decides to go to a guest thing. It's Shirley Marie Curdy. Goes to just outside of Armton, I think, sort of to um what drove to West was it West Fork, and then she shot her former brother-in-law, who has nothing to do with that. It didn't have anything to do with that, nothing to do with that. She shot him twice, but he didn't die. Yeah. So he's still right. We could probably interview him. I don't know. He might be he might be too old and dead. But what gets me though the worst thing that is when she's finally arrested, which we're needing we want to dig out like how was she arrested? Like, you know, did she she got pulled over? We're gonna need it's more if it's more a foyer request for this one, yeah. Yeah, so she what she says is very shocking to me. I missed the sixth one, didn't I? That's what she asked the officers. That's like cold, man. She had a suicide note and she recorded a bunch of tapes. Yeah, tapes of what she was thinking and doing. Yeah, which you know we could probably get that transcript. That'd be I don't know, man. It's gonna be disturbing. Yeah. But you know, stopped, didn't it? No, we're still going. We got audio truck. So pretty much the sweet lady, not sweet, but Miss Chirley, what did she do? She's not a sweet lady, man. I'm not just a caught callous bitch. What did she do? She gets to spend some time in Arkansas State Hospital for the mentally ill. Yeah, and they put her in there. Uh, when was that? They they arrested her that day. And on June 20th, on June 20th, that day, right? Yeah. Uh, but they you know, he's she had gotten stopped earlier in the day on Weddington, where I used to live. Yeah. Right there by where I used to live. She had a 38 38 in her seat. Yeah. And the cop let her go before she did all this. Oh, that's messed up. Yeah. That is so messed up. So messed up. Uh, so anyway, but they basically this doctor's estate, please said, hey, she's mentally ill and legally irresponsible at the time of the killings. Yeah. Paranoid schizophrenia and psychotic delusion. You said the devil directed her actions. Which, you know, that defense is not used hardly anymore because it's really super hard to prove and a lot of people. Well, ever since Berkowitz. Yeah, you died. That guy's in the dog made me do it. And then he ended up lying the whole time. Yeah, he was lying the whole time. So it's like nobody, it's it's a dog is telling you to do something. First, don't do it, because he's probably not a dog, he's probably just you being crazy. And two, uh, it's not gonna hold up in court, even if he did tell you. Yeah, so basically she My dog told me to feed him. Yeah, because that's what dogs do, not to tell you to kill somebody. Well, unless you want to feed them to him, I guess. So basically, she's hanging out in the you know Arkansas State Hospital until about 1978. But pretty much said, hey, she's okay to stand trial. Yeah, and they and then and then when they did take her to trial, it was a jury couldn't make it couldn't make up their mind. It was half of them thought they were just nuts. Hung jury. I think I would like to see the notes from that. Yeah, because all this is public or we can get all this publicly. I just think it's interesting, like you know, hung jury. Why why she blatantly went out there and shot these people because she was mad that the children didn't want to live with her anymore. Obviously, we know why. She's nuts. Well, okay, okay. I I know what it's like to have a child live with another parent, but you don't go shoot them. I don't know, you shot yours with an arrow, but I should I'm not proud of it, not my proudest moment. But I guess maybe she was like, Okay, um, you had one of my kids, I'm not letting the rest of my kids go, so I'm gonna kick kill everybody. Honestly, she should have got the death penalty. Yeah, I I don't disagree with that, but she never got out of prison, though. Like she she they transferred her, they finally found her confident and put her on jail trial, and she went to jail the rest of her life. We think she died August right around August 3rd, 2015. Yeah, there's no actual official record. We just found in the tombstone records, yeah, that you can search tombstones, that her death was August 3rd, 2015. It's 79. So she got to be 79 years old. 79, and she killed her kids, yeah, and she killed her ex-husband, and she killed two other people that had no idea. That's how selfish you have to be to do something like that. What I think this is my theory, y'all. I think when the second kid turned 14 is when she went crazy. I think that she's like, I don't want another another kid living with my ex-husband. Fuck y'all. And I think she just decided that she was gonna take her kids out, take him out, and I don't know, I don't know why the other two people were taken out. That makes no kill everybody. I mean, if you're on her killing spree and you're you're already killing people. I mean her saying I didn't get the sixth one. That's not a sign of crazy. That's a sign of just being an asshole. You didn't call it the difference, asshole versus ass. But I understand, like, okay, this is like 74 when like not even mental illness was considered uh, you know, an okay to talk about. It didn't recently get okay to talk about till the past couple years, really. And now some people won't even talk about it still. Yeah, it's a taboo to certain people, but it shouldn't be. But my thing is like, uh, did she behave in prison? Did she take her pills? Did she she lost her inheritance money? Yeah, she had a bunch of inheritance money. The state of Arkansas's like, no, no, no, that's ours. She took it because they they said the cost of imprisoning her is 270,000 bucks so far. And this was like 2007, and uh she had $58,000 coming from selling some land or something. Yeah, and the state's like, no, that's mine. Yeah, they took it, man. It's gone. That money is in the state coffee. Yep. But but I don't know. This is fascinating to me because I've we don't get that we know of a lot of people restless bree killers, or you know, that kind of thing where they shoot a bunch of people, yeah. You know, uh maybe little rock, I don't know. Well, it's comes down to being just people, I think. Human beings can have the per propensity to be nuts, but everybody has a breaking point when they just go crazy. And my thought thing, I would love to dig more into her. Like, what made her kids decide to go with their dad? Maybe hey, I want to spend some time with dad. If they would have lived, we might have had something to go off of and and had some answers here. But really, all we can do is to guess because she killed them all. Yeah, she killed them all. But that's in Northwest Arkansas. Who knew that this kind of we got a mob stop bombing and then a murder spree by a woman nonetheless, which is very unheard of. Yeah, she just wanted to take her whole family. The other two people I still don't understand. Yeah, there's it's it's it's her it's a common thing for women to kill their kids. Not common, but I mean, in the parlance of people who are getting killed, like serial killers and things like that, committing violent crimes. It's a common one of the top ten things that women do when they kill people, they kill their kids for some ungodly reason, but they do it. It's happened over and over and over again. Most women they drown them or something. Yeah, we Andrew Eates drowned her. Is it she the one that drowned her kids? There's so many. Or she no, she's the one, yeah, she drowned all of them in a bathtub. And there's another woman that sunk them in the car in Memphis, I think it was. I remember that. It happens a lot, actually. Enough to where it's in the zeitgeist. But you know, like they don't shoot them. Most people most women are like I say, we're passive, we'd rather like give you poison or freaking drown. Yeah, yeah. Poisoning is the number one method of murder for women. There was another incidence in Arkansas that we need to cover too. That's it's very very sad case about a woman who um she got electric, went to the electric chair for it or lethal injection, I think, at the time, but she killed her two kids um basically because she didn't want to live anymore and she didn't want them to be separated. And that's what's dumb. I I want to say it was in the 80s, late 80s, 90s. I'll have to look it up. I can't remember. But, anyways, she tried to kill them with potassium. She's a nurse, tried to kill them with potassium. Potassium chloride. And when the boy, the young boy, was screaming so bad because it burns your veins, it's caustic. She just decides that okay, I'm gonna suffocate them. That's why they give you so many drugs when they give you the electric or the needle in the arm at the at the prison, is because that's what they kill you with. Is that medicine, but it hurts so bad that they had to give you a bunch of other medicine first. Yeah, they give a cocktail, if I remember correctly. Anyways, we'll look at more information on that. I don't cocktail. Why don't they just do that? Just give them cocktails till they die of alcohol poisoning. Uh I don't know. Never mind. But here's my firing squads actually sounds better. Here's my thing, but anybody who kills their own children is a special place in hell for you. I mean, no offense. I don't have any kids, so I could understand that, but I can empathize, but I can't sympathize. Yeah, I couldn't fathom. That's why I'm like, well, more follow-on the one little rock when we get more information. I think it was out of Little Rock around Little Rock. We'll find out. And you've also been looking on that, you've been looking at uh missing people's cases. Yes, thing called the Donetwork.com guys, go on there, it's super interesting. Obviously, some of these people have been found and they sponsor certain cases every month, but they um some of them have names and a little bit of see if I'm on there. You're not dead, you're talking to me. What I'm missing. What if I'm missing? What if my parents aren't my parents? Then go look on there. I don't know. The correct answer is I met your father and your mother, yeah, and you're definitely their kid. Yeah. Because that's actually quite prevalent if you know my dad. Yeah. But this what's cool about this is you can go on there. It's a couple that I'd like to get some research on about uh one out of Telequah, um Telequa area. Basically, this lady um decided that she wanted to go meet some guy in Tulsa who might give her a job and she never came home. Yeah, what about the one that was um going to a concert? That's what you've been talking about lately. Penny Doe out of Pennsylvania. I found uh honestly through Facebook just looking around. This is a very fascinating case. There's not a lot of information on it. So I'm gonna have to really dig deep on this one, but it was they don't even know who she was. Her body was found by some kids, and they don't really know her name. They don't just call her Penny Doe because she had two pennies, one in each pocket. Um, some jewelry was stolen, they think, they suspect. But around that time, there was a rock concert going on in Pennsylvania where people were the band. I honestly don't recognize the bands that were on the list when I read newspapers. What year? Uh, I want to say it was in the 70s or 80s. I'm not positive. No, no, I need to look it up. It could be later than that. But what I what struck me was we don't know who she is, we don't know anything about her. A rock concert was going on, they were having a lot of people come from out of town. They named her Penny Doe because of what the pennies were in her pocket. I just found it very interesting that we still have people out there that are unidentified. Well, we when we go down the I-49 corridor, I-40 corridor, we go into the pilots and whatnot. And they take them down recently, I think, because we remember we were seeing that we had missing flyers, missing people flyers up everywhere. There was a huge board of people that were missing on I-40. I-40, which is a pretty common road. I mean between Little Rock and uh in um um Oklahoma City. Yeah, and it goes even further, but it was like people were like the I-40 killer, they caught that guy, but they say they estimated there was like five more guys doing it. Yeah. When they caught him. So it just like I would tell my kids when they're older, like, you know, stop at a big place to get gas, be careful, blah, blah, blah. Because when you walk into these places, it's like a giant wall of like missing persons.

Andrea: 43:28

Yeah.

Paul G: 43:29

And it's just super scary. Where, you know, I've got people in a girl at college, a girl that's graduating high school, have another girl that's still in high school. I mean, they're these are the age groups of men and women that are missing. Mostly women. Mostly women, unfortunately. Yeah. Well, like back in the day, hitchhiking got a lot of girls killed, a lot of girls killed, which is interesting. Why I it went from not getting people killed to that's the main reason why they were getting killed. Yeah, and it's so mind-blowing to me. Like, why would you get in a car with a stranger? Well, it used to be you could trust them. Yeah. And that's, I guess, the 70s is about drugs and hitchhiking. I think it changed because you're the the people that were driving around were able to go further than they were before. Because in the 40s and 50s, I don't think they could go as far because gasoline cars, you know, but in the but they started building interstates in the late 50s and they weren't done with them till the early 60s. So and Eisenhower started that because he wanted to be able to get the the in just in case the Russians invaded, he wanted to be able to get as much of the army across the country as fast as possible. So he built the interstate. That's what the interstates were built for. No, makes sense. And that's why they're that's why they're really up north and really down south, and not really where they need to be, the old ones. Yeah, the new ones are getting there because it's there's a different reason for doing it now. But at the time, they just wanted to get as much military equipment across the country as fast as possible to stop any invasion. No, that makes sense. That was Eisenhower's thought, anyway. And uh, so I think it's just um I think what happened was it's just access. These guys wanted to kill people, but they didn't have access. Well, now they have a lot of access. Now they have the internet and all sorts of other things, right? But now we have a better way to catch them. However, you know, we also see like the the school shooters and things like that, right? We think that's a modern thing. It's not. No, it's been around for a long time. Yeah, there was I 19 uh 1940s. Uh, there was a guy doing it. He shot up a school, nobody reported on it. You can look it up. It's I I have to go look it up again. Then you got the guy from the bell tower in the in the what the 50s or 60s, then Texas. Yeah, that was a really bad thing. Yeah, and it's the same reasoning he's shooting up as we're doing now. So we've been doing this for a very long time. It's just now we're seeing it more because we have access to the information. We don't have to rely on some idiot at a newspaper going, well, I really want a happy story this week because I got a Jim Bob down here that owns a Ford dealership. He needs to sell some cars. You know, sure, something like that's probably true. Nobody wants to talk about that kind of stuff. Yeah, now everybody wants to talk about that kind of stuff. Well, it's because everybody wanted to talk about it then. There just was only so many outlets. Yeah. Now there's a thousand outlets per person. I mean, we're doing a podcast and very few people listen to in the overall scheme of things, right? Yeah, it's compared to some, but you gotta start somewhere. Well, no, I'm I'm not yeah, I'm not down in it. I'm just saying there's so much noise out there, it's hard to find the good ones. Yeah, so more to follow on these cases that we're looking into. I'm gonna send some FOIAs in. You can go online and do it now. You don't have to actually fill out the form, get it notarized, and fax it in now, you just do it online. That is nice. Yeah, it used to be even 2018. You had to do like extra paperwork to get the FOIA. Well, I guess if you want the information that bad, you're gonna work for it. Yeah, well, it's the only news organizations. Now everybody wants them. So they're like, I'm tired of this paper, let's do it electronically and let the computer gather up all the information and spit it out so that there didn't have to be somebody sitting there doing research all the time. Yeah since we're digitizing all of our archives.

Andrea: 47:12

Yeah.

Paul G: 47:13

I don't know about the small town. Springdale, probably, I would think maybe they digitized their archives. I would hope. I really would hope. They may not have gone back that far, though. I don't know. Maybe so anyway, so um I've got I'm gonna try to do another voices here in the next few weeks and get that up and going so we can have just because I want to. What do you think? Go for it. I like them. Do you like them? I do. Oh, okay. But do you listen to them? I listen to them as you're picking them. That's not that's not listening to them. You hear me go, and in here we're gonna find a hey man, guys. This is not as easy as you think it is. No, it's not as easy. Yep, we do better live. It's not cut. No, we have fun, more fun just doing that live. So if we screw up our words or say things weird, don't send a tape mail, guys. Oh god, don't know give us your ideas for merch, for things you want to hear about, things you want to know. Yeah, go to www.palgnewton.com, paulgnewton.com, and you can find all of our crap that coming out stuff there. You do have some cool hoodies. I have a hoodie. People are really interested in it for some reason. I don't know why. Like it's all these hits, but nobody ever buys one. Buy one. Somebody out there buy one and uh buy a coffee cup for like $12. And put we'll put a memo. I need stickers. There's a sticker that says, Oh my god, Paul's stop, which you did not do this time. Oh, that's true. I didn't. Oh god, what's wrong with me? I told you, you're kind of down today. I'm tired. Hey guys, we've been out in the heat. I this wasn't that odd. It was like 75 degrees. It was 80. Anyways, guys, you buy something, we'll put a memo line out there and we'll give you a shout out in the podcast. Yeah, if they're listening. If you're listening, somebody out there. Or if you know our phone numbers, call us. Yeah. I mean, that's creepy, but go ahead. If your friends call us, we love you. Yeah, only if your friends. If your haters don't call me, I don't want to know. You can send me an email. You can send me a hate mail all day long. We want to know, but not the hate mail. Yeah, because they're we appreciate feedback, but if I don't know, hate mail is fine. I'll read I'll read that on the air. Yeah, you would. If it's any good. Yeah, you wouldn't read that. Anyways, guys, we love ya. Check out our check out everything on the website. It's she's it's mostly me because she's busy with an actual job. So yeah, I'll Paul G Newton.com. And I guess that's it. So my