Roadside Vanishings, Real Timelines

A simple errand, a stamped receipt at 3:17 p.m., and a car left on US 71 with the keys still in the ignition. We walk through the last verified hours of 18-year-old Dana Stidham and sort what’s true from what’s been repeated for decades. No theatrics—just timestamps, locations, and choices that still demand answers: the unfixed flat, the Omni facing the wrong way, and a seven-week silence broken by a hunter who waited before calling his discovery in.

We unpack why those details matter in a rural 1989 Bella Vista—before cell phones, before robust DNA workflows, and before trails cut through deep Ozark terrain. We look at early suspects and fragile alibis, including a boyfriend whose grief blurred lines but not evidence, and we press on the questions that keep resurfacing: Was the tire sabotaged? Did someone move the Omni to misdirect the search? What did investigators document about the tire, trunk, and missing items that could signal a souvenir? Along the way, we separate rumor from record on “serial killer” talk in the Ozarks and focus on what the case can actually sustain.

We also examine behavior that sets off alarms—the delayed call from the man who found remains—and consider what modern profiling says about witness conduct versus narrative control, without leaping past the facts. Then we outline our next steps: FOIA requests for the officer sighting, tire photos, and evidence inventories; outreach to Benton County; and an open invitation for locals who remember that stretch of US 71 to come forward with specifics. If you drove those roads, worked those shifts, or owned a similar pickup, your memory might tighten the timeline.

If this case gripped you, share the episode with someone who knows northwest Arkansas, subscribe for updates as records come in, and leave a review with the one question you want answered most. Your perspective could nudge a detail out of the past and into the file that finally moves.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Setting 1989 Bella Vista
• 0:21 Dana’s Errand and Last Sighting
• 1:15 The Abandoned Omni and Clues
• 1:51 Discovery of Remains
• 2:32 Building the “Murder Book”
• 3:34 Methods, Records, and FOIAs
• 5:10 Life Context and Stakes
• 7:17 Terrain, Community, and 1989 Policing
• 9:40 Timeline Gaps and Car Anomalies
• 12:08 Seven Weeks Later: The Hunter
• 14:28 Early Suspects and Alibis
• 17:25 Forensics Limits and DNA Hurdles
• 19:36 The Hunter’s Behavior Examined
• 22:35 Rumors, Other Cases, Serial Claims
• 25:40 Local Offenders Considered
• 28:06 Questions for Law Enforcement
• 30:05 Next Steps and Listener Tips
• 32:35 Closing, Merch, and Contact

Transcript

Paul G: 0:06

It's the summer of 1989. Bella Vista, Arkansas, back when it wasn't golf courses and gated neighborhoods, but pine forest, new roads, and long quiet stretches of US 71. A 19-year-old woman named Dana Stidham runs a quick errand for her dad, a grocery run that should have taken 15 minutes. She buys cat food, a pack of cigarettes, some other small things at the Phillips Food Center right off 71. A receipt reads 3.17 p.m. That's the last confirmed moment of her life. Sometime after that, a motorist, or maybe a police officer, reports seeing a small gray Dodge Omni pulled over near Wellington Road. Behind it, a pickup truck, a man kneeling. The kind of scene you pass on the highway without thinking. Maybe he's fixing a flat. Maybe someone's helping. By the next morning, her car is still there. Keys in the ignition, groceries untouched on the passenger seat. The left rear tire is still flat, but there's no signs of Dana. For seven weeks, nothing. Then on September 16th, a man out squirrel hunting in the thick woods near Beale Lane finds human remains in a dry creek bed. But he doesn't call it in right away. And when he does, the Bonnie is identified as Dana Steadman. Cause of death, homicide, trauma. In this episode, we're going to walk through that day, not the legends, not the rumors, the real timeline, the real cases. Where Dana went, who saw her, and how quiet, how a quiet errand turned into one of Arkansas's most haunting unsolved mysteries. So Andrea, we've been working on this pretty hard. I've actually built out what they call a murder book. I kind of like the way they call it a murder book, though.

Andrea: 2:32

Yeah, a murder book, but it sounds, of course, obviously a murder book, it's very morbid, but um it's kind of the timeline of everything you can find out on a this kind of situation.

Paul G: 2:42

Well, and we haven't we're going off public records at this moment.

Andrea: 2:45

Yes, newspapers got dot com. We love you.

Paul G: 2:48

I don't know about that. You can get a lot from that love hate relationship with me.

Andrea: 2:52

Yeah.

Paul G: 2:53

I think. Um but we've I've done my FOIA request.

Andrea: 2:57

Yeah, you have.

Paul G: 2:59

And I'm still trying to get more information. I've found a bunch of other podcasts. There's this one guy who writes God, his podcast is so hard to listen to.

Andrea: 3:12

Yeah, he's been in a lot of stuff though. He's been in like, I recognize him from Deadly Women, I recognize him from a lot of other stuff. He's a writer, so he's very flamboyant, which that's his that's what he does.

Paul G: 3:23

There's too much flourish. Get to the point.

Andrea: 3:25

Yeah, but you and I are get to the point, people. Not everybody is. Yeah.

Paul G: 3:29

But uh, so I've done my foyer request. I've I put in a request to the Benton County Sheriff because they're just down the road. I can go down there if I have to. And uh what we do our next steps, or we'll go over that in the end, what our next steps are, but uh the sheriff department's supposed to get back with me. They have a lady who you've seen. If you've done research on this case, or if you listen to other podcasts, you'll hear her talking. Which probab I hope it didn't sour her on talking to people like us.

Andrea: 3:59

I hope not. But I mean, all we want to do is like get cases out there from this part of the world in Arkansas that nobody really talks about. I mean, there's like I always joke with Paul, like, we're like the armpit of probably like true prime crime podcasts, because you know, uh it's hard to get information, which you know, police departments have their own reasoning and that's important, but I just wish that we were covered more.

Paul G: 4:24

Well, and there's so many people that have died mysteriously, and nobody knows why.

Andrea: 4:30

I mean, that's true, it's all throughout the US.

Paul G: 4:32

But I guess 350 million of us in the continental United States. So true.

Andrea: 4:36

I guess this case like kind of resonated with me a touch because I have kids in college. I have a daughter that's fixing graduate high school, and I could just easily ask her to run up the road and go get dog food for me, and she doesn't come back. That's the thing I was like, it's I guess it feels more.

Paul G: 4:51

Is that why you're constantly asking me to go to the store?

Andrea: 4:54

No. You'd fight them off.

Paul G: 4:57

Dang it, he came back.

Andrea: 4:59

But like, you know, uh my oldest daughter's in college, my middle daughter's fixing to graduate high school this year. It's like they're going off in the world and they do little errands, and you know, they may just be innocent and somebody pulls over and helps them. You don't know if they're gonna help you or they have something else in mind. And I don't know uh, you know, if they're studious enough to know how to take care of themselves in that situation.

Paul G: 5:26

I would think that they've I mean, I don't know. Maybe it's a maybe for me. I guess it's a mom. I know these kids, and I'm like, maybe.

Andrea: 5:35

You always say if someone take Emily, they'd bring her back.

Paul G: 5:38

Yeah, no, they'd return in. No, thank you.

Andrea: 5:41

But you know, I guess for me, these kind of cases, like even when I mean in 89 I was what, and probably in junior high? I don't know.

Paul G: 5:49

I was in junior high, probably. I was just I was about to be tenth grader. So in in Arkansas, the way our schools were made, uh, and the way it was put together in the 80s and 90s and mid-90s, I think they changed this. Maybe it was late 90s. When we did first through sixth in elementary school, then seven, eighth, and ninth in junior high. And that's not middle school. Middle school, I think it that can it takes the tenth graders in, I think.

Andrea: 6:17

I don't know. We we called it junior high. That's what it was called. I mean, 10th, 11th, 12th was high school. So if you were like in ninth grade, even though technically some people considered you high school, you were the top of junior high.

Paul G: 6:28

So you weren't in high school yet.

Andrea: 6:30

So I mean it's they've changed that now.

Paul G: 6:32

Um, so well, it's not always changed either, because they still have central and southwest junior high.

Andrea: 6:38

Yeah, yeah.

Paul G: 6:39

In Springdale. So who knows? I don't know what the heck they're doing. Just you know, make it all the same, but forget making it try and make quit forget making it hard. There. That was hard to say.

Andrea: 6:49

So tell us about this case and we'll get going.

Paul G: 6:51

Well, um, so if you're interested, it's Arkansas State Police Cold Case 72-771-89. Yes, we're gonna get in the weeds.

Andrea: 7:01

That's exactly what we could get information off. Yes.

Paul G: 7:05

Yeah.

Andrea: 7:05

Which we get sort of some things are not gonna tell us from it's not public record because I get that.

Paul G: 7:11

Yeah. Well, Dana, she was uh Stedham, Stedham. She is 18, was 18 years old. And a recent Gravit High School graduate, Gravit's really far away from Bella Vista.

Andrea: 7:25

That's true.

Paul G: 7:25

Especially then. The city limits have changed. But at the time, Bella Vista and Gravit didn't butt up.

Andrea: 7:31

But you know, think about it now. She graduated from there. They probably like in our situation, like Emily, we moved from where we were to here now. So maybe her family up and moved to Centerton whenever she got out of high school.

Paul G: 7:42

So supposedly she re shef she supposedly had a low risk type life.

unknown: 7:48

Yeah.

Paul G: 7:48

Right? She's not out doing that we know of. Yeah. Here's the thing one thing we need to definitely tell people right now is we always, always, always, always say to keep the facts in in mind, and whenever we get off the facts and start guessing, speculating, no one's thought about these things but us.

Andrea: 8:10

Yeah, it's just our thoughts, our ideas, what's coming to mind, what I guess makes us clue in on things.

Paul G: 8:16

We're not we're not law enforcement, we're not but we are highly I wouldn't say highly educated, but I'm pretty sure that you and between you and I, we know enough that we could probably hold our own in a college course.

Andrea: 8:31

Yeah, I've been to college, yeah.

Paul G: 8:34

You've been to college?

Andrea: 8:35

Yeah, and you you can hold yourself in college very well.

Paul G: 8:37

Yeah. Um I do a lot of research into the human condition, psychology.

Andrea: 8:42

No, that's your thing.

Paul G: 8:44

It's a hobby.

Andrea: 8:45

Yeah, and my I'm a nurse by background.

Paul G: 8:48

So I d I know how it's like if you've seen the the TV show Mindhunter on Netflix.

Andrea: 8:54

Mindhunter's amazing, it's a good show.

Paul G: 8:56

I'm sure everybody that has Netflix has seen it. Um but that's a story about the guys who invented profiling and how to hunt down serial serial killers and regular killers, just one-offs as well. Yes. They did a lot of research into this. They went and interviewed a lot of people who killed other people and figured out w spent time figuring it out. And then he consol consolidated it into many books, and now it's the cornerstone, not necessarily what they use today.

Andrea: 9:29

But it's still the cornerstone, meaning it's back to basics if you want to get down to it.

Paul G: 9:33

Everything's built on top of the the these guys. And I've done a lot of research into that, and some of that stuff's just to me, it's just intuitive. I I'm like, why didn't anybody think about this before? You know?

Andrea: 9:46

Yeah.

Paul G: 9:47

What I mean, some of these things that we go through when we're trying to figure out the mind of someone who's doing bad things, it's like, duh.

Andrea: 9:56

Yeah, you have to get inside their head at least somewhat to understand, which is I think what they did.

Paul G: 10:02

Yeah, and that's so that's kind of what we're gonna kind of do a little bit, I think.

Andrea: 10:06

Yeah, but I want everyone to note as a disclaimer, you know, we're not we're not law enforcement, so and we're not licensed professionals. So it's just our ideas and thoughts based upon the evidence we glean from what we can get a hold of.

Paul G: 10:18

I'm a licensed joker. That's probably true. No. Anyway, um, and then I guess they I guess it says I I assume that they moved to Centerton, or at least her father might have been living. She was living in Centerton with her brother and another person. That's right.

Andrea: 10:36

Yeah, her brother, she moved in with her brother and a couple of her friends.

Paul G: 10:39

She drove a 1984 Dodge Omni. Have you seen what that looks like? That is such a junk.

Andrea: 10:45

I come on, I drove a Dodge Reliant K. I can't, I can't, I can't argue.

Paul G: 10:51

I drove Boss Hogg's car in high school.

Andrea: 10:53

But you know, I mean, your first car 18, you think you're like king and queen of the world, you know? So um, I drove that thing until it literally fell apart. Oh, it kind of looks we're pulling it up right now.

Paul G: 11:03

It looks like an escort. Basically, it looks like an escort. It's a little smaller than my car. It's it's an escort.

Andrea: 11:10

But you know, hey, when you're 18 and you got a car, you don't care.

Paul G: 11:13

I like that blue on that one.

Andrea: 11:15

Anyway, you don't care if it, you know, looks like crap for lack of a better term, it's your car.

Paul G: 11:19

So she drove her little Omni down to the grocery store at Phillips Food Center, which is now a harps from what I gather.

Andrea: 11:26

Okay. Harps is very common in Northwest Arkansas. It's kind of like your hometown grocery store, I guess you can kind of equate it to.

Paul G: 11:33

Yeah. Um, and about 317, now we know that she was in the store at 317. At least that's when the purchase was made because she had a receipt on her in the bag.

Andrea: 11:43

Yeah.

Paul G: 11:44

Of the stuff she bought, which is probably paper bags back then.

Andrea: 11:47

Yeah.

Paul G: 11:48

And not plastic, because Walmart didn't start using those. They're the first one to use them. They didn't start using those until what, 2000?

Andrea: 11:55

Oh God, I don't even know. I all I can remember is maybe ninety-eight. Uh paper and then plastic most of my adult life.

Paul G: 12:04

Yeah. Yeah. So they probably use the paper ones. Um and I they say that an officer reports a pickup truck being uh behind a small car with a man kneeling near the left rear tire on US 71 in Wellington, but there's no you can't find that document.

Andrea: 12:25

No, we found it in newspapers.com, but that could be easily misconstrued. Yeah, and or you know, not completely 100% correct.

Paul G: 12:33

It doesn't, it doesn't exist in hard copy that we can find.

Andrea: 12:36

No, we can find no. And we look we dug.

Paul G: 12:39

So about, I don't know, what it was probably 10 minutes later.

Andrea: 12:45

Yeah.

Paul G: 12:45

Yeah, about 10 minutes later, he sees this car and she's and somebody's helping her change a flat.

Andrea: 12:51

Which we all see this every day. I mean, we drive in on the highways and the roads, and we see some nice goods. Yeah, good Samaritan pull over which which what you want someone to help you. And this is the day before cell phones. So if you're out in the middle of a highway where you have to get out of the car and walk, and somebody comes up and is like, hey, I'll help you, you're like, Thank you.

Paul G: 13:10

I mean, you don't especially if you're a lady.

Andrea: 13:12

Yeah, you don't think about like sinister stuff like this, especially in 89.

Paul G: 13:15

It's you know, those tires weigh about 85 to 200 85 to 100 pounds.

Andrea: 13:19

Yeah, they're hard to lift. I've tried, but I've tried it myself and they're very hard. I mean, and I I I work out and it's still kind of hard for me. Yeah, I couldn't change my own tire. I'm not strong enough.

Paul G: 13:28

You could too. Just mostly out of spite, you'd get that tire change. You'd be so mad.

Andrea: 13:34

Probably. This is probably true.

Paul G: 13:36

I'm going to do it, damn it. So she disappears. They last time that's the last time they saw the car until the next morning when someone reported it as abandoned on the side of the road.

Andrea: 13:48

Now, here's my thing. It just just came to me. Like, okay, she's running an errand for her father, correct? Yeah. Um, supposedly. She doesn't come back. Um did her parents call the police? Like in those days, though, wasn't it like you have to have 24 to 48 hours before they'll do anything? She's a legal adult at 18.

Paul G: 14:05

That's true. It could it be said that that's normal for her to be gone overnight? I mean, maybe that's why they didn't call. I mean, we said we don't know these things.

Andrea: 14:15

We don't know. There's no reports or nothing. The family's not saying that. And that's that's fine. We're not passing any blame, but you know, uh I've we've listened, all of us have listened to enough true crime to know that like we listened to more than usual. Yeah, that's probably true. That, you know, we can't report anything until they're gone for you know 24 to 48 hours, and she's 18 years old and an adult.

Paul G: 14:34

But cops can choose to look for you now if they wanted to. It's not that strict of a policy.

Andrea: 14:39

But back then it seemed like nobody took anything seriously, which is very sad because time was lost in this situation.

Paul G: 14:47

Well, I don't know why she wasn't reported missing. Maybe she would just go on, maybe she wouldn't run an iron for her father, because we're getting that from podcasts and and and reports. But is that the truth?

Andrea: 15:01

Oh, who knows? Maybe she's getting cat food for herself. I mean, we don't know.

Paul G: 15:05

Cigarettes, probably.

Andrea: 15:06

Yeah. I mean a lot of speculation behind that, but it makes me think like nothing was really reported and nothing that we could find of anybody that was like, where is she at? Yeah. But those are also the days like now somebody goes missing, and depending upon where you're at in the world, it's all over like TV and Facebook and all that.

Paul G: 15:24

Back then it was what, newspapers and they didn't even they barely had amber alerts back then.

Andrea: 15:28

Yeah, yeah.

Paul G: 15:30

So yeah, nobody knew. And it's all landline, so in the even have caller ID.

Andrea: 15:36

Yeah, so it's no cell phones. So her and her situation, she's like, I don't know, I can't change a tire, I'm stuck here. Either get out and walk, or oh, this nice person's gonna help me.

Paul G: 15:46

So they found the car the next morning. Um, it was unlocked, keys in ignition, groceries left inside, the tire's still flat, and it's facing the wrong way. Like she's going back to the store.

Andrea: 16:01

Which I find that odd.

Paul G: 16:03

Yeah. Very strange.

Andrea: 16:04

Which read that in some newspaper reports of the police said that they thought that was odd. Which um the only thing I could think of is maybe she got like, you know, how you're not paying attention and you're driving, you're like, I miss my exit, and you have to go all the way around earthquake.

Paul G: 16:18

This is a two-lane road out in the country. You know what those look like because we drive them all the time. There's no reason for a turnaround because you wouldn't miss an exit. That's true. That's true.

Andrea: 16:26

This is rural. I'm just thinking the way I'm picturing the way Bella Vista is now. I don't know what it was like in 89. I was a kid, but it's not like it is now where you have that dividing down the highway.

Paul G: 16:36

Well, it was uh semi-rule.

Andrea: 16:40

Yeah.

Paul G: 16:41

Uh there were some new housing developments starting to be built. But it's it what Bella Vista is, Bella Vista is a retirement community.

Andrea: 16:49

In those days it highly was. Now it's kind of like it's mixed.

Paul G: 16:53

It's mixed, yeah. But back then, they were you had to be fit 60 plus to even buy a lot.

Andrea: 17:01

That's probably true, yeah.

Paul G: 17:02

It is, it definitely is. It was a retirement community locked in. It didn't have a police station, didn't it barely had a fire department.

Andrea: 17:09

Yeah, I lived there when I was my son was little and they didn't even like us living out there because we weren't 65, and it was more of an opportunity then than you know that you know that because it wasn't 89.

Paul G: 17:22

Yeah. Yeah. And basically it's it's Ozark Mountain terrain. It's rough. There's low creeks and high hills and bluffs, and it's really hard to navigate that area. And so that's why if you don't stay on the road, you're gonna you're either gonna get lost or you're gonna have to hike a long way to get to where you can get out of the culvert that you're in.

Andrea: 17:46

Yeah, it was way more like that now than it is, you know, then than it is now.

Paul G: 17:50

Now there's more trails. They got the trail system that goes all the way through northwest Arkansas, all the way up the Missouri border now.

Andrea: 17:55

Yeah, that back then it was just like the very rural, very, you know.

Paul G: 17:59

Yeah, the only trails that were out there were deer trails at that time.

Andrea: 18:02

Yeah, exactly.

Paul G: 18:04

It was bad. Um, so I guess they got the car, they towed it off. I'm supposing. I don't see why they'd leave it there.

Andrea: 18:13

No, they wouldn't leave it there.

Paul G: 18:15

Especially if it's been reported abandoned with the keys in it. The cops are probably.

Andrea: 18:19

Which that's odd because if you're gonna like somebody comes up and's like, hey, I'm gonna take you to XYZ station so you can call somebody, you take your keys. You would you would take your purse, you would take your stuff.

Paul G: 18:32

Yeah, at least your keys. I mean, so and your cigarettes too.

Andrea: 18:36

Yeah.

Paul G: 18:36

If she's you always take, I mean, if she's got she bought cigarettes, I'm assuming she smokes cigarettes, you don't leave them in the car because you're gonna want one.

Andrea: 18:45

You wouldn't leave that there. So that's odd. I think that's kind of odd.

Paul G: 18:48

No. So about two days go by when this dude reports no, I'm sorry, I take that back. It was uh three months, wasn't it? Seven weeks?

Andrea: 18:58

It was in September she was discovered.

Paul G: 19:01

Yeah. Seven weeks later.

Andrea: 19:05

Yeah, September 16th of 89.

Paul G: 19:07

Yeah. She was she was reported that there was a body in the culvert.

Andrea: 19:12

Yeah, and the guy that reported her.

Paul G: 19:14

He waited a day or longer to even make the phone call.

Andrea: 19:17

He didn't want to ruin his squirrel hunting.

Paul G: 19:20

Yeah, it's reported. Uh we've got a newspaper clipping that from where was it?

Andrea: 19:25

Oh, it was um, I want to say it was out of it was out of New York. Um, that basically um hunter doesn't let bodies spoil day.

Paul G: 19:35

Yeah.

Andrea: 19:36

So instead of reporting her or the body, most normal people, I think, were crap.

Paul G: 19:42

There's somebody dead down there in the hollow. I guess we better call someone.

Andrea: 19:46

I would be like, oh god, somebody's dead. I'm not touching nothing.

Paul G: 19:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now these days don't touch anything.

Andrea: 19:52

But I mean, I guess better get blamed for it. Back then, uh, there was no DNA.

Paul G: 19:56

There was no like It was just beginning with DNA.

Andrea: 19:59

Probably. But I mean, I would like to think that humanity in what we are, we'd be like, oh my god, somebody's died. This is skeletal remains. I need to get out of here and I need to tell somebody. Not oh, I'm worried about my squirrels.

Paul G: 20:12

Yeah. So he waited to tell them. Um, but where they found uh found her was in a dry creek bed, uh, really far down in the in the in a little gulver culvert kind of thing.

Andrea: 20:25

Yeah, and when I looked up the one of the newspapers mentioned she was on highway, I want to say like 340 and 94, which that means nothing you guys don't live around Arkansas. But when I looked it up, because we're not that far from where this is, honestly, which is kind of the creepy part, because even now, when you go out there, I want to say if it's the correct thing that newspapers are reporting, there's a a water tower there, and even now it's still rural.

Paul G: 20:50

Yeah, yeah, it takes a lot to get back there. That's for dang sure.

Andrea: 20:55

I mean, so it's like uh I don't know. The first thing that goes off in my head is like this has to be somebody that knows the area. Maybe, maybe, but I don't know, man. You you know the area, you gotta be local back then to know all those trails.

Paul G: 21:14

Even, I mean, now you could probably drive her, and we have she was found six miles away from her car.

Andrea: 21:18

Yeah, all yeah, six miles away from her car. So what did they do? Like she's by her road by her car, she's thinking this person's gonna help her, and what do they do? What how do they get her in the car?

Paul G: 21:28

Did they kill her six miles up the road closer to the site? Or did they kill her where the car is? I think it's possible to cover up the body, to cover up the finding of the body. The person that killed her put her body in the culvert, right?

Andrea: 21:48

Yeah.

Paul G: 21:48

Got in her car and drove it back down the road so they would search in the wrong place.

Andrea: 21:53

I mean, that's a possibility or that makes sense to me. Or they're like uh, I don't know, knife, weapon, whatever make you get in a car um in those days, and then it had a flat. But she's getting in his car, and she I mean, six miles is a lot for anybody to hike with someone that they may not be able to control.

Paul G: 22:12

Six miles at 35 miles an hour. It's a good 10-minute drive.

Andrea: 22:16

Which we've taken that back way from Bella Vesta to home, and it's about 10 minutes.

Paul G: 22:21

Yeah. That's about 15 if you take it the whole way.

Andrea: 22:24

Yeah, the whole way.

Paul G: 22:25

So I I'm thinking, I'm thinking that he moved the car. Sounds like he moved the car, but I don't know because we haven't got been able to get the foyer request in.

Andrea: 22:34

I don't know. I think he got her in there somehow promising her some way of calling for help. And um, or oh, honey, maybe she didn't have a spare in her car. I mean, you know, and you know, hey, honey, I will take or whatever, you know, however they get you in the car. I'm gonna drive you up the road and you can call your dad or whatever, and they pull a knife or something on her and she's subdued and she's at his will. We're assuming it's a he. More than likely it's a he, but it could be a she, guys. Let's just be realistic. But we're not we're saying he because that's probably statistically more of a correctness.

Paul G: 23:06

Yes.

Andrea: 23:06

We're not trying to like, you know, anybody out there saying you're saying he. Um it could be a woman. We understand that, but we're just being like, What's you know? What we think.

Paul G: 23:15

I'm missing a piece in my book here.

Andrea: 23:17

Oh, okay.

Paul G: 23:17

So what I'm gonna do. So the first thing they looked at was the boyfriend.

Andrea: 23:23

Oh yes, this poor, poor man. Uh let me pull this up here.

Paul G: 23:28

Uh, because we have so uh obviously the first place you go whenever somebody gets killed is family and friends.

Andrea: 23:35

Oh, yeah, that's the first people you look at.

Paul G: 23:36

Because they're usually, seriously, they're usually the people who kill uh people is your family or friends. Nice, isn't it?

Andrea: 23:44

It was just sad, but if you gotta work your you know, work inside out, so to speak. But this poor soul, poor guy, um was he they dated?

Paul G: 23:53

What was um well, I think there's two was there two guys involved in this?

Andrea: 23:58

Uh Paul loves his pad. I love paper guys. Um Michael Earl McMillan.

Paul G: 24:06

Yeah, now did they date or was he just a stalker?

Andrea: 24:10

I got reports from newspapers that they dated and that they were good friends from Gravit High School.

Paul G: 24:17

Now, one thing we've you know, when they found her, she was completely decomposed.

Andrea: 24:21

That's correct.

Paul G: 24:22

She sat in the hundred degree heat from where July that she was missing.

Andrea: 24:27

Yeah, July to September.

Paul G: 24:28

September, which if anyone's really humid in Arkansas at that time.

Andrea: 24:31

Oh, it's like 100, 102.

Paul G: 24:33

With 90% humidity, yeah.

Andrea: 24:35

So yeah, if you're sitting on open open elements, but define skeletal remains. I'm thinking, like, you know, skeletal remains being like Mr. Skeleton you can hang out for Halloween, but that could be probably misconstrued if maybe there's some stuff on her correctness, because obviously they identified her.

Paul G: 24:51

Yeah. So it's she, yeah. So there's two guys. They rumored or the rumor was this is what the podcast people put out, and and it's like it's a rumor. And I don't know if I really I don't know if I like the rumor mill that they get into.

Andrea: 25:08

Yeah, rumor mill, come on. We all remember when being in school, someone starts a rumor, it's not necessarily your telephone game. Yeah, but her boyfriend, okay, here's the thing. He becomes a suspect for a while, and obviously they dated, so he's gonna take her on dates. He's she's gonna be in his vehicle.

Paul G: 25:24

They're gonna That was the McMillan guy, right?

Andrea: 25:26

McMillan, yeah. So to prove or disprove him, you're gonna have to figure out where he was at in the time that this took place. Yeah. And his only alibi was he was driving around, which is extremely vague.

Paul G: 25:39

Just driving around. Yeah. No, I didn't kill her. I'm just driving around.

Andrea: 25:42

That does not make you look good. But at the time of her burial, he was in the Navy.

Paul G: 25:49

And what so was he okay? So that's well, was he so he obviously was in town when she was killed?

Andrea: 25:57

Yes, his alibi was he's driving around, no specifics. But he wasn't in the navy, but if you think about it, she was found sometime later, like in July, he's driving around. Maybe he went to the Navy. I don't know, I'm guessing here maybe like two weeks later. So at the time that she was found and the time that she was having her funeral, he's in the Navy. Um you know, Navy, he can't. He's very distraught, and he got in trouble from when he got out got out on leave or wherever. He came back and stole her marker.

Paul G: 26:22

The the the temporary marker.

Andrea: 26:23

Temporary marker.

Paul G: 26:24

Now, I do know my father passed away not too long ago, and he still has a temporary marker.

Andrea: 26:30

Yes.

Paul G: 26:30

And it's been six months, probably.

Andrea: 26:32

It it takes a bit for headstones.

Paul G: 26:34

Yeah. So it's possible, even more so back then, because now they've got these big laser etcher machines that can do it fast. Uh, it's possible that it could have been almost a year later, because we don't have the police report date of when he took the stone took the temporary marker.

Andrea: 26:49

But what I can read in newspapers, like he was gonna get in like a misdemeanor charge for stealing a marker.

Paul G: 26:53

Yeah. Which petty theft.

Andrea: 26:55

Which, you know, I get it. He's distraught. He obviously cared for her. He loved her, you know, in some aspects. He was very distraught about it. Everyone's kind of get, you know, the newspapers.com, his attorney brought it a point that, you know, he's just upset. It wasn't nothing like sinister. He didn't, you know, he don't that doesn't mean he did it.

Paul G: 27:12

See his point of view. I mean, you're not gonna get anything to remember her by, and they're gonna put the tombstone down, and you found out it's going in Wednesday, and so you go up there and take the the temporary marker because they're just going to throw it away or or or reuse it for somebody else. So you want that to remember her by. But it's weird. Ask the family. Well, yeah, exactly. But it's weird, but it's plausible.

Andrea: 27:34

It's plausible. Um, it's also plausible the other way, too. Yeah, you know, but I mean I I love it.

Paul G: 27:40

It's also plausible that it blew away the wind, but no, well, I mean stole it.

Andrea: 27:43

I have my daughter's temporary marker. I had a child that passed away.

Paul G: 27:46

You still have it?

Andrea: 27:47

Yeah, I still have it. Okay. Um, I I get that wanting to hold on to it, but I would like to think, and maybe because I want to believe that people have an ounce of kindness that you would ask the parents.

Paul G: 27:57

Yeah, but not if you're an idiot.

Andrea: 27:59

But I guess if you're so distraught, you're not thinking.

Paul G: 28:01

Yeah, he's an idiot. Well, he's also an idiot. He's his alibi is I'm drow out driving around.

Andrea: 28:06

You know, and think about it. One thing I thought was very interesting in reading in newspapers.com is is his attorney, which was a lady, I can't remember her name, but she was like, they later on down the road, he's obviously prime custody boyfriend, you know, stole a marker. You know, he's like it just rings it.

Paul G: 28:21

But so yeah, and he they say he drove a truck that was very similar to the truck that was parked behind Dana's. Well, every truck then looked like the same, the other truck.

Andrea: 28:31

Yeah, they all had a very classic look. All of them did.

Paul G: 28:33

Yeah, and and they all look the same.

Andrea: 28:35

I mean, now you could especially in the dark. You can tell a dodge between a Ford between his Chevy.

Paul G: 28:40

I mean they were all boxes back then.

Andrea: 28:42

Yeah, but they're all boxes back then.

Paul G: 28:43

And you know it wasn't new. His his truck wouldn't be new because he's navy and he's not here all the time. I doubt he's got a brand new truck. But even if you got a brand new truck, it's got a 1990, I guess it's a new body style. But more than likely it was like an 85 Chevy. Yeah, it's or an 85 Ford, which looked very similar in the dark from a distance.

Andrea: 29:02

Yeah, anybody in the dark. If you were to ask me, like, hey, what kind of vehicle you see? It was a black truck. I couldn't tell you if it was a Ford or a Dodge or whatever. You could, though, because I didn't know the difference, yeah.

Paul G: 29:11

I don't know the car guy.

Andrea: 29:12

But um, we also had another person we thought might be a potential suspect.

Paul G: 29:16

You know, in 96 the judge ordered this guy to provide a hair sample uh when he was in Oklahoma.

Andrea: 29:23

Yeah, he lived, I think, or what to Tulsa, I want to say.

Paul G: 29:26

Yeah.

Andrea: 29:26

You know, I get this. I get why his attorney said no. Because if you think about it, they were dating.

Paul G: 29:30

The attorney uh absolutely said, no way, not gonna happen.

Andrea: 29:33

And I I see your point. I mean, they dated. Of course her hair is gonna be in that truck. Of course there's gonna be DNA in that truck.

Paul G: 29:40

She Well, Judge ordered him to provide a hair sample in '96. They wanted his DNA, I think, or something.

Andrea: 29:46

Which I think he complied with it.

Paul G: 29:48

Yeah, but the state crime led said it was similar, but blacked a route for DNA. Well, everybody has a version of brown hair.

Andrea: 29:55

Yeah.

Paul G: 29:55

It's really light brown, which because we call blonde, or really dark or black. Black, which nine what, three quarters of the time it's actually just really dark brown.

Andrea: 30:05

And to get the root removed, I think, is kind of a challenge. Yeah. It's probably more of a better technique now. Yeah.

Paul G: 30:12

But oh yeah. They don't even need hair anymore. We just go to dance straight to DNA forget the hair.

Andrea: 30:17

Now, if you touch anything, you got touch DNA.

Paul G: 30:19

Yeah, they can pull DNA out of a strand of hair.

Andrea: 30:21

Which is mind-boggling, but this is 89.

Paul G: 30:25

So but when he was there though, the police went out and talked to him, right?

unknown: 30:28

Yep.

Paul G: 30:29

And what he said to them was sometimes he said this, sometimes I think I did kill Dana, but I know I didn't.

Andrea: 30:37

Why would you say that though?

Paul G: 30:38

Went on record saying that.

Andrea: 30:40

But why would you say that?

Paul G: 30:41

Well, you know, cognitive dissonance and things like that, people, if he's really dis I'm plain devil's advocate. He's really distressed about it. That is something that he's, you know, transferred onto himself. I mean And he might feel like I sometimes I think I did, but I know I didn't.

Andrea: 31:01

To me, that's a weird statement. Like, if you didn't do it, if you didn't do something like this, you and I would be like screaming at the hilltops, I didn't do this, X, Y, and Z, screw you all, I did not. I don't imagine, even if someone like beat me to death, I still don't think I would do that.

Paul G: 31:16

Well, we're also much faster processors of information than most people.

Andrea: 31:21

But we're different people.

Paul G: 31:22

And we're also very different people. We're very, very you won't meet very many people like Andrea and I.

Andrea: 31:27

But if you think about it though, there've been cases out there where people have been like within an inch of their life and they confess just to make the beating stop.

Paul G: 31:35

Yeah, that happens all the time, actually. That's why they don't do that anymore. They can't. It's like the cops go to jail now for doing that.

Andrea: 31:42

Also makes me wonder did they hound this guy so much that he's getting confused within his own head where he was?

Paul G: 31:47

Could have. Because that was a technique of the day, 1989. And a small, you know, Benton County Police Force. It's not the modern police force that we have now. I'm not indicting the police. No, because I don't know. It might not have happened that way, but it could have.

Andrea: 32:00

We're always kind of slightly five years behind the rest of the world.

Paul G: 32:03

Yeah, unfortunately. That's true. But and so, but they also said she had another boyfriend or another guy that she was dating.

Andrea: 32:12

Oh, I don't remember that.

Paul G: 32:14

They didn't give a name publicly. This is all hearsay from the podcast. The other podcasts. This is why I don't like the listen to these podcasts because they tell you these things. You think they're fact.

Andrea: 32:23

But you can't find where the where the information is.

Paul G: 32:24

And they're just there just somebody says, Well, I think so. You know, and that's not that's not correct. So any alibis for this guy was verified through work logs and family corroboration, is what they say.

Andrea: 32:40

Family will cover up from their own people, for God's sakes. The uh Did you steal that their kick cat from me? No. You know, I mean, uh Gabby Petito, his own family backed him up.

Paul G: 32:51

Yeah, yeah.

Andrea: 32:52

Which I don't know. I guess if my kids did something like that, it'd be like, you're going to jail, buddy. You're gonna confess.

Paul G: 32:58

Well, there was this whole bunch of rumors about her going that about there being some kind of weird party up in the woods near Missouri. And I think that's I think this guy in the podcast that we're talking about that I listened to, he's getting too close to another case that isn't related to this case.

Andrea: 33:18

I mean, that's possible. There were a couple other things that we looked up around this time because we found an article where it talked about um that their serial killers maybe lurking in the Ozarks. So we were kind of curious about what exactly they were getting at. And we were both discussing this before we got an air.

Paul G: 33:34

In 1990, Shauna Garber, she was 22.

Andrea: 33:37

Which Anderson, Missouri is not that far away from Bellevis.

Paul G: 33:41

And that's the Grace Doe. Yeah, Grace Doe. That's the one that they that they did. They figured it out, they solved it. And I think we're we're probably gonna dive in on that for ourselves as well. Donna Sue Nelton, also in 1990, age 28, out of Benton County.

Andrea: 33:56

Which we don't right here. It's right here. I mean, you know, that's fit super close. But the one that I don't agree with, which we covered briefly on one of them, was Melissa Missy Witt. Yeah, Melissa Witt. Fort Smith is what, an hour and a half from here?

Paul G: 34:11

So there was major papers coming out and saying that it was a serial killer.

Andrea: 34:15

Yeah, which is not right. I maybe they're gr they're grasping at the same time frame.

Paul G: 34:20

Yeah.

Andrea: 34:21

But I get that. And then the other one is a young girl, Christina Marie Pimkin, which we may cover nine. She's nine. Doesn't really quite completely fit the MO of someone who's 18 and 22 and 28. But still, if we can find some information to help the family with Miss Christina, we would love to help and like research it and get that out there. Because a nine-year-old, that's just that is very sad, guys.

Paul G: 34:41

Yeah, it'd be tough for me not to also be convicted of murder after I find the person who did it.

Andrea: 34:45

Yeah, you don't don't hurt children. Don't hurt children.

Paul G: 34:48

Yeah. I'm not you don't want to meet me in a dark alley and me know that you're some kind of pedophile. It's not gonna go in the well.

Andrea: 34:54

No, you'd go to jail.

Paul G: 34:57

Um, so where we're at now is basically they don't have there's no evidence because it's all rotted away.

Andrea: 35:05

But I read that her mother gave up blood and saliva samples. That way her daughter didn't have to be exhumed if they do find someone. What? Like she What's that gonna help with? Well, she has mitochondrial DNA. She has she wanted to give everything out there so her daughter doesn't. Yeah, so she doesn't have to be like they had the daughter's DNA though, didn't they? I would think to identify her, but it's been on several police reports.

Paul G: 35:28

They probably didn't pull any because at the time, 1990, the DNA wasn't really a thing. It was just being used. I think the first case was just happening right then.

Andrea: 35:39

But think about it as a mom and your daughter was k killed savagely. You don't want her constantly being up and down, up and down, out of her resting place to see if someone's exhumed. That that in itself is enough trauma as a parent, I would think. Yeah. So I think she kind of had a little bit of forethought of wanting to help, which I don't know how much of that. We do know some things have been sent to the FBI, some things have been sent to Arkansas State Crime Lab, but nothing has ever been completely 100% finding an answer on what happened to her and who did it.

Paul G: 36:12

Yeah. So here's the thing that drove me nuts once I started compiling the book.

Andrea: 36:17

Okay.

Paul G: 36:18

And it drove me nuts because I know enough about how people who kill operate. Mostly because I have to write about it in my stories.

Andrea: 36:28

That's correct.

Paul G: 36:29

If you want to read my stories, by the way, uh it's on Substack, search for Paul G. Newton and you can read them. Because there's there's a bunch of them there. But I have to know how to kill people to write it. And I have to understand the person who killed it to make a good story. Yeah, because if you don't understand the person and why they killed, then you can't you can't grow the characters.

Andrea: 36:54

But uh when we first got this, the first words out of my mouth is squirrel hunter not reporting it either A, yeah, you're an a-hole for not doing it, and you're real worried about catching, yeah. Yeah, cu catching your squirrels.

unknown: 37:06

Okay.

Paul G: 37:07

I doubt that. Squirrels are everywhere.

Andrea: 37:09

Around here, like they're like, you know, rats.

Paul G: 37:11

Yeah. Um they are rats with tails.

Andrea: 37:13

But it just like, I don't know, something about that just drove me nuts. You know, it's like, why would you do that? Do you not have a soul?

Paul G: 37:20

I but uh I went and and did this quickly using Chat GPT.

Andrea: 37:27

Which it's it's nice.

Paul G: 37:28

It's really, really good. It's a really good source material.

Andrea: 37:31

It helps me in my job, it helps you when you with your writing your stories and how to get like good information that you can't spend hours on because who has hours and hours of time in their lives.

Paul G: 37:40

Well, that we do or we're used to.

Andrea: 37:41

Yeah.

Paul G: 37:42

So what I did is I I went in and I talked to Chad for a good hour and a half about um Robert Ressler.

Andrea: 37:50

Which is on Mind Hunter.

Paul G: 37:51

Yeah, he's the main guy that started all of this stuff, the profiling and everything else.

Andrea: 37:57

Yeah, super brilliant man.

Paul G: 37:59

Yeah, and and he's the one he's the one that put this together. This is where the st the stepping stones are come from, so people can get from one place to the other and and build upon.

Andrea: 38:07

Which has helped solve crimes.

Paul G: 38:09

More than one. Several big ones. But it didn't do anything for BTK.

Andrea: 38:17

BTK, I think, is an enigma all his own.

Paul G: 38:20

He just quit and then started again.

Andrea: 38:22

Well he was raising a family, I guess he was busy.

Paul G: 38:25

I mean, I don't know. He's busy. I don't know. Too bad he wasn't busy the night that the seven, eight people that he killed. Anyhow. Um so this guy it rung a bell in me and things that I remembered. So I went to chat to look up. It's it's basically me getting the cliffs notes from wrestlers' books.

Andrea: 38:47

Yes.

Paul G: 38:48

And it goes and does all the research for me and it presents me with it. And then when you and what especially with this, when you're in Chat GPT and doing anything, always, always, always, when it finally gets done, you tell it, go back and fact check everything you just said.

Andrea: 39:03

Yes, you have to because it is a machine, it's not well, it makes stuff up.

Paul G: 39:07

Not as bad as it used to when it first started.

Andrea: 39:09

But it's not like you trained it. Like train your dragon, whatever that is.

Paul G: 39:13

Well, no, I train mine. Mine is trained. Yeah, it's yeah. Um, I've put hundreds of hours into my chat chat, and they they do learn these chat GPTs, they do learn how to talk to you in a way that you'll re accept and not want to kill them for the most part over time. They learn you.

Andrea: 39:36

Yeah, it almost sounds like sometimes the responses it gives you sounds like it's you.

Paul G: 39:40

Yeah.

Andrea: 39:40

Which is kind of eerie, but you know.

Paul G: 39:42

Well, I I told it that's why I wanted it to do it. Because then I understand it and I don't have to fight with it. Like, what the hell are you talking about? No, I get it. Um so pulled up the wrestler information and the profiling information and just wrestled with it for a minute, and it really it came up with, and I agree with it 100%.

Andrea: 40:05

But we're not trying to have like say when we say this, we're not trying to say that this is who did it. Right. We're not trying to give we're not a cops. This is just us speculating and us just thinking and having our own ideas and processes behind it.

Paul G: 40:18

So I don't want any like law enforcement coming after us or what I want to know is did we follow up with the hunter? Did he sit in a did he sit in an interrogation room and get questioned for hours like a normal suspect would? That's what I want to know.

Andrea: 40:32

I would like to know that. And I would like to know, like back in those days, even up until like I would say 2000, the good old boy system in northwest Arkansas still worked.

Paul G: 40:42

If you were Yeah, it worked up until about five, ten years ago, actually.

Andrea: 40:46

You were well known in the community and you seem to be a good person, and you kept your nose clean, and you happened to be somewhere you shouldn't. Well, they'll just forget about that because Billy Bob, you're a good person. And that sometimes I think it's not just in Arkansas, it I I'm sure it's everywhere in the US, but it was a thing here.

Paul G: 41:07

Yeah, and one of the things that Wrestler discovered was insertion, the offender insertion into the investigation. And while this could be said that it is not it is because he inserted himself into the investigation when he did not report it.

Andrea: 41:25

Yeah, I might I don't know why that bugs me so much, because it's kind of like I would like to think if you have a soul, you would do the right thing.

Paul G: 41:30

Now, prosecutor David Klinger and Sheriff Andy Lee both were very concerned about this guy and look and and and uh not and his laps and not reporting it. But again, I wanna did they interrogate him, did they push him? Because the behavioral presentation, the hunter's lack of emotional effect on and his statement that it he didn't let it spoil his day, that should have drawn I mean I would have put him in an interrogation immediately.

Andrea: 41:59

Bring out the fire and the pitchforks. I mean that's how I look at it.

Paul G: 42:02

Right? And i it's atypical for an uh uninvolved witness. It's not something an uninvolved witness would say.

Andrea: 42:10

But she wouldn't, he's the reason why she was discovered. So let's just be hypothetical here for shits and giggles, excuse my language, that he did it and nobody was discovering her, and he was getting slightly irritated that nobody was finding her. And you're like, ooh, I'll make a call, here she is, but I want to get my squirrel hunting in.

Paul G: 42:27

Yeah. Or he could just be an asshole.

Andrea: 42:29

That's true. I mean, that's a possibility. I mean, there's some people that hear hunting is almost like a religion, especially in the you know, their 80s and 90s, and even now, hunting is a big deal here.

Paul G: 42:40

Yeah. Well, and and part of the biggest thing about it too, though, is that if there was anybody who would have the ability to traverse and know where everything is, it's that guy.

Andrea: 42:51

It's a hunter. Yeah.

Paul G: 42:52

They know he was there.

Andrea: 42:54

I mean, the hunters know where they like to go. They know what's rural, they know where they're gonna get what game at and where. I have family that hunt, and they're it's they know their stuff. They know where to put their tree stand, they know where to put their blind, they know, you know, uh times of year and conditions. They're very smart on that. And they know what's hidden from I don't know what it was like in 89, but now, even now, it's so kind of rural, we have a road through it. Who knows what it was like back then?

Paul G: 43:20

And here's the thing this wasn't common knowledge about what we're talking about in 1989. No, it wasn't. Because the book Sexual Homicide Patterns and Motives by Wrestler, Burgess, and Douglas didn't come out until 1988. Oh. It's very plausible that the local law enforcement were still going off of the 1960s and 70s playbook of how to handle a homicide investigation.

Andrea: 43:44

Yeah, because I mean they didn't know you don't know what you don't know.

Paul G: 43:47

Yeah, and in that book, uh such he says that such a delay may stem from shock fear or implication, or in rare cases, offender reinsertion behavior. But fear of implic fear of implication.

Andrea: 44:03

But the behavioral pattern of him coming back and saying he didn't want to spoil his day doesn't sit well.

Paul G: 44:11

And then he's he comes across comes on in later inter media interviews. Uh that's a called a narrative control tendency, sometimes seen in organized offenders who wish to shape public perception perception or monitor investigative progress. And that's out of the Douglas and Old Shaker, Mindhunter, 1995. Mindhunter was actually a book that they that explains how these things worked. But I mean 1995, it still hadn't come out yet.

unknown: 44:41

Yeah.

Paul G: 44:41

So these are techniques and and things that they they didn't consider that on the ground that day.

Andrea: 44:46

But if you're thinking like a lay person who finds a body, you would think they won't instantly turn it into police. For me, if I found a body, I'd be screaming like I'm not touching it, and I would like to go call somebody, but I would be afraid that I would be in it, you know, because you found it. But if you didn't do anything wrong, then why did you not report it sooner?

Paul G: 45:04

One of the good things about it is that uh according to the research I did, and of course this is all speculation and not real doctoral level stuff, is that it's more than likely he's not going to be a repeat offender. It's probably the only person he killed if it was him.

Andrea: 45:20

But there's he's never named it anything I can find. It all says it's rule. They never quote him all except that one. Except for that one quote. Yeah.

Paul G: 45:28

They don't put his name next to the quote.

Andrea: 45:30

Yeah, which I meant. I would like to think due diligence would be able to rule somebody out, but the good old boy method is still kind of a concern.

Paul G: 45:38

So some of the people think that her tire was slashed or the air was let out in a ruse to get her to pull over so they could help and kill her.

Andrea: 45:47

I can see that.

Paul G: 45:49

I I don't know.

Andrea: 45:50

I mean I mean, no offense to those ladies out there, but blue light rapist kind of shit's going on here. Yeah, we're not very studious on cars. Some women are. God bless you who are. I'm not one of those people. If I was to say if someone tampered with my tire, I'd have no idea. I just get in the car and go. So I it's a possibility.

Paul G: 46:10

I mean And they don't know what killed her. They don't know if she was strangled or stabbed. And there's conflicting reports that Arkansas State Police finally did say yes, she was stabbed, but they can't prove it.

Andrea: 46:20

No, I mean, unless you've got like chip marks on bone, I don't know how they could prove that. I mean, we're not DNA people. We're by by no means are we DNA, like trained. You you lab techs are like amazing in this field, and God bless you. But I'm just thinking if she's stabbed and she's skeletal remains, the only way you can probably prove that is seeing like Nick's on a bone.

Paul G: 46:39

Absolutely. And I guess my biggest thing too is that all these other podcasts, where this one guy's telling this giant long story, and he goes off on a three-episode tangent on another killing, trying to tie it in, but it's not the same.

Andrea: 46:52

No, but you know, sometimes people see things to different perspectives that maybe he's seeing something from a writer's narrative or you know, something that's trying to tell you a story instead of giving you information. But you know, that that's obviously done well for him because he's pretty well known. We're not gonna say who he is because we don't want him coming after us if he gets angry that we're having a different opinion.

Paul G: 47:14

But um, but so have a different opinion. It's he can get angry all he wants.

Andrea: 47:19

Well, these days you never know. But free speech. Free speech. But I mean, if but people sometimes like that type of drawing in and identifying with the person, which we both kind of identified with her based upon different scenarios. Me having a being a mother for you, it was an aspect of the hunter that irked both of us, but you especially.

Paul G: 47:41

Yeah, no, I was on him in me. I was thinking about him immediately. I'm like, that's my suspect.

Andrea: 47:47

But for me, I'm thinking, how what can I do to protect my girls when they're out there on the road themselves? Granted, we have cell phones now. That's a little bit better. But in '89, there was no cell phones. It was landlines. You're out there by yourself. Either you get out of the car and walk, or some sweet person helps you.

Paul G: 48:04

But that's all there is about there's there's some other people talking about parties and things like that. But you know, it's not eyewitness accounts, it's it's people that are just talking about BS. Um, you've got this one guy, it's very possible that the guy the other guy did this, the guy in Oklahoma. What's his name? It's very possible.

Andrea: 48:24

But I I I want to clear the You mean Oklahoma or the guy from Gateway?

unknown: 48:32

Oh.

Paul G: 48:33

Oh, you're talking about other suspects. No, I'm talking about the the suspect that they had.

Andrea: 48:37

Oh, yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, the boyfriend.

Paul G: 48:39

Yeah, yeah.

Andrea: 48:40

But it could be like, who knows? Maybe they like, you know, graduating high school and they're like, hey man, I'm going on a different path in life. We need to break up. And maybe who I'm just speculating here, maybe he didn't take that very well. Which I get that.

Paul G: 48:54

I mean, you know, when you're one of the other things that I brought up too was because you just reminded me of it. Um, was this guy at Gateway?

Andrea: 49:02

Yeah, Harden, Gary Hardin. I think it's Gary Harden.

Paul G: 49:04

Yeah, Harden, the devil in the Ozarks at that point. Oh, yeah.

Andrea: 49:06

And he's the one that decided that he wanted to escape.

Paul G: 49:08

Yeah, he's the one recently. Yeah, he's spinning he he he he got exactly half a mile in and just stopped.

Andrea: 49:14

I'm sorry, but if I'm gonna escape from jail, I'm gonna go as far away from the jail as possible. But he hung around.

Paul G: 49:20

Yeah, he didn't go anywhere.

Andrea: 49:21

I'm like, I remember like yelling at the TV, going, You idiot. But I mean, we're glad that criminals are stupid. That's how they get caught. But he's from Pea Ridge. Grant Harding.

Paul G: 49:31

He's from Pea Ridge.

Andrea: 49:32

Gateway Pea Ridge area, which is where we live. Yeah.

Paul G: 49:35

Which is a stone's throw from where she was murdered.

Andrea: 49:38

Right.

Paul G: 49:38

It's literally like one thing about Grant Harding is we he, it's proven by DNA that he tried to rape a teacher. He did rape a teacher. Yeah, he did rape a teacher at a middle school. Was there middle school? It was middle school or elementary school.

Andrea: 49:52

Elementary school.

Paul G: 49:52

Elementary school. Before he became the even the gateway police officer.

Andrea: 49:59

Yes, and he's just they didn't know who did it. Yeah, but you know, he they love thank God the police department had the foresight to keep DNA.

Paul G: 50:07

Yeah. They get they kept the DNA off the victim. Is was that I think it's it sounds more like though, I mean it's possible that he could have been over here and said, ooh, look, I get to kill somebody because he's nuts. But it doesn't follow the pattern underneath the Mindhunter's ways of doing things wrestler, because he it would be an escalation and then he'd de-escalate to rape.

Andrea: 50:32

True. Or maybe we don't know. Maybe she was raped. We'll never know. She was skeletal remains.

Paul G: 50:39

Yeah. But like like I said though, it if he would have killed, he would have killed the teacher. Also more than likely.

Andrea: 50:47

Or maybe something stopped him. We we we just know this guy because he's in the area. He's very kind of known to this part of the world. He escaped recently, it was all over the news.

Paul G: 50:56

But he was working in and around Bentonville. Yeah. At the time, which is right next to Bella Vista. And it would be on his way home. Correct. That road would be on his way home from where his work was.

Andrea: 51:11

Which is the road you would take to drive through P Ridge to get the gateway. If we're depending upon in this area where he lived, it is the main way to get through there there.

Paul G: 51:17

Yeah. And at 3 30, 4 o'clock in the afternoon, guess what? He just got off work because he worked at a factory.

unknown: 51:22

Yep.

Paul G: 51:23

They leave at three. It's it all it it it's it it's Was he in a factory or law enforcement yet? No, no, he was still he was only 20.

Andrea: 51:31

Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

Paul G: 51:32

Yeah. And that's another thing reason why it kind of I kind of exclude him a little bit because he's 20 and he hasn't raped yet.

Andrea: 51:39

But you always need to.

Paul G: 51:40

And the other killing was just he walked up to the dude and shot him because he was mad at him.

Andrea: 51:44

Yeah. For no reason. We're gonna cover him in a later podcast because he's fascinating. He's local to us. Um, you know, granted, he got caught.

Paul G: 51:51

Your uncle or somebody, your cousin, Bray, was the one that saw it and caught and found the body.

Andrea: 51:57

Yeah, yeah. Bray's is the last is my mother's main name, and they're like a big idea. The guy here in P Ridge, and somebody with the last name Bray is somehow connected to me, but yeah, and he he's the one that found the body.

Paul G: 52:07

He's driving by. It's like, what the heck?

Andrea: 52:08

Yeah, that back road that we try to tell him we need to be careful on.

Paul G: 52:11

Yeah. Yeah, don't get killed. Anyway. So I guess what what we're looking for now is we're gonna get you can follow us with the investigation a little bit here. We're gonna see how much of the stuff we get back.

Andrea: 52:22

And foyer, yeah. Yeah.

Paul G: 52:24

And if we can talk to the sheriff department.

Andrea: 52:26

Yeah, we're working on it.

Paul G: 52:27

Because we have those questions that we want to have answered.

Andrea: 52:29

We wanna know. And some things we want to know. We're trying, but sometimes people are very tight-lipped and we respect that.

Paul G: 52:35

Did they take pictures of the tire deflation? Did they take pictures of the tire? Can we see pictures of the tire on the car? If I want to see that. If they let us if they have them, they might not have took pictures of it. 1989.

Andrea: 52:47

Yeah, it's true.

Paul G: 52:48

Um the officer sighting.

Andrea: 52:51

Where the hell?

Paul G: 52:52

Who? Do they have a log?

Andrea: 52:55

You know, I'm sure there's a lot of things that they do in their daily thing that they think is insignificant and don't log. And that's this could be one of them.

Paul G: 53:00

Yeah. Um how was she killed? Right? Was she strangled or was she stabbed?

Andrea: 53:08

That you may not be able to find because if depending upon how she was, she skeletal remains, you won't be able to know. But her poor family, she need they need we need justice for her.

Paul G: 53:17

Yeah. And was there any missing items? Was there anything that's in there that they they are looking for? See, I would look for that because a lot of people who kill keep souvenirs.

Andrea: 53:28

Yeah. And I just the fact that she left her keys is still very mind-blowing to me.

Paul G: 53:31

I mean, she could have had a picture or a locket or a rabbit's foot or something, because rabbits' feet people had them back then. Yeah. She could have had that and the guy's got it in his trunk right now, going, I killed that girl, nobody knows.

Andrea: 53:43

Yeah.

Paul G: 53:44

Exactly.

Andrea: 53:44

Exactly.

Paul G: 53:45

Um, and then I really want to know if they talked to that damn hunter. You know, I want to know if they cleared him, and they cleared him right. Do they have con tapes of him?

Andrea: 53:55

A lot of this a lot of this we'd want to know, but they may not give us for the sake of the fact that it's unsolved, and I respect that.

Paul G: 54:02

I don't know. I just really have a hard time believing that that hunter didn't do it.

Andrea: 54:07

I do.

Paul G: 54:07

I know it screams it, but I mean I mean, the what we'd have to do now as an investigator if we were if we were the investigator is prove that he didn't have anything to do with it. We have to go and inst and prove he didn't do it, have anything to do with it.

Andrea: 54:21

Yeah, but we don't even have a name.

Paul G: 54:23

Yeah, unfortunately. So but that's where we're at with this. Dana Stidum.

Andrea: 54:29

Yes.

Paul G: 54:29

Interesting.

Andrea: 54:30

Very interesting.

Paul G: 54:31

Um, what do you think? Is it something we should get to keep? I guess we keep working on it.

Andrea: 54:36

Yeah, let's see before you give us. And if we have an update, guys, we'll give you one. If not, then if anybody knows anything, please report.

Paul G: 54:43

Yeah. Now, also though, we've also got a couple others in the I've been trying to find information on that 72, 74 car bombing, but nobody has it. They've gotten rid of all of it.

Andrea: 54:56

Yeah, I can kind of see that.

Paul G: 54:58

It's all gone. And the dude's not talking.

Andrea: 55:01

No, and I get that. You know, I respect that. I'd like to dig some more on these other things we've talked about.

Paul G: 55:07

Like you've got this other other homicides, right?

Andrea: 55:10

Yeah, um, penny doe, I'm digging into that. It's granted it's not an Arkansas case, but it's interesting.

Paul G: 55:14

Uh well, that's just up the road.

Andrea: 55:16

Pennsylvania's a little bit far up the road, but yeah.

Paul G: 55:18

Oh, the penny doe one. I thought you meant the Jane Doe. Sorry.

Andrea: 55:21

But um, you know, like Grace Doe. I'm kind of curious about that. Um, we've talked about Missy, you know, wit.

Paul G: 55:28

So if anybody knows anything, they feel free to contact us. We'd love to hear what you have to say.

Andrea: 55:33

Oh, and if you know something personally, please let us know. Or if you know something and you want to talk to the police department, we encourage you to do so.

Paul G: 55:39

Yeah, call to the cops. If you have already talked to the cops, you can let us know. Especially if they ignored you or the podcast guy ignored you, we'd love to know about them.

Andrea: 55:46

Yeah, and this Christina Marie Pimkin, nine years old. I don't know, something but that tugs at me a touch. Because she's nine. She deserves justice.

Paul G: 55:53

Absolutely. All right, guys. Um, Paul G Newton.com. Go to Paul G Newton.com and you can buy a hoodie. I have really cool t-shirts up there right now.

Andrea: 56:03

You do have some pretty cool ones. You worked hard on them.

Paul G: 56:05

It's a moon moon cat? No, it wasn't a mooncat, was it?

Andrea: 56:09

It's a burger.

Paul G: 56:09

Moonburger. That's right. Moon burgers.

Andrea: 56:12

It looks kind of cool.

Paul G: 56:13

And then they have the great uh Squid War of 2047 or something like that.

Andrea: 56:18

Yeah, it's pretty funny.

Paul G: 56:19

It's cute. Then the Mooncat. What's he doing?

Andrea: 56:22

Oh gosh, I can't remember what he's doing.

Paul G: 56:23

Can't remember what he's doing. No. Go check him out at the Paulg Newton.com. It's under get your swag. And if you like this episode, email us at Paul G at Paul G Newton and tell us how great we are and how much you love us. And if you don't like us and you want to complain, email us anyway.

Andrea: 56:39

Yeah.

Paul G: 56:42

Turned off on me. We do this live. I don't even cut it. I just put it on there.

Andrea: 56:47

Yep. We do a good job. I guess we do a decent job live.

Paul G: 56:51

I thought it had longer on the on the side.

Andrea: 56:53

I like this song, it makes me laugh. I don't know why.

Paul G: 56:55

Yeah. We need to know everything.

Andrea: 56:57

We do.

Paul G: 56:58

Because we're messed up on the head. A little bit. There we go. Thanks, guys.

Andrea: 57:05

I need to know everything. Now you'll be surprised if the info you get is by letting them talk, so I'm letting them talk. Gotta keep quiet, maneuver insights to let them talk up their body. Another one body, that's just how I go. I got some secrets, I'm shaking the game, so they stay on their toes. Stay in your lane out to stay on the goal. I can play with the pros and act like a rookie, so they overlook me. They're not the belong.