Things I Want To Know

A Small Town, A Vanished Child, And The Case That Won’t Let Go

• Paul G Newton • Season 3 • Episode 7

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The story starts on a quiet May evening in 1991 and never really stops echoing. A nine-year-old sets out to sell costume jewelry in a tiny Arkansas town where people wave from porches and the fields hold the day’s last light. By week’s end, she’s found in a ditch four miles away, and everything residents believe about safety, trust, and “being home before dark” begins to crack.

We walk you through what happened and what didn’t: kids who saw a light-blue car and a man with long hair; a grocery stop that raised more questions than it answered; and a case that leaned on one hair in a suspect’s car—then fell apart when the wrong hairs were sent to the FBI. The ex-wife who first pointed to him never made it to the stand, and without cross-examination, her statement vanished. With no solid DNA and water erasing traces, the courtroom math never added up. Along the way, we unpack how small agencies in 1991 worked without homicide units, how early DNA limits changed everything, and why eyewitness memory—especially from children—can both illuminate and mislead.

This isn’t a tidy true-crime tale. It’s a study in the limits of process, the cost of a single forensic error, and the burden families carry when “closure” is an empty word. We talk candidly about motive theories—from robbery gone cruel to a witness silenced—and why each sits on uncertain ground. We also explore how modern tools, offender registries, and renewed records searches might open doors that stayed shut for decades. If you lived in or around Hickory Ridge back then, your detail—an unfamiliar car, a sudden move, a changed routine—could matter more than you think.

If this episode moves you, share it with someone who grew up in the Delta, hit follow so you don’t miss future deep dives, and leave a review to help others find the show. And if you know something—anything—about that night, call the Arkansas State Police. Let’s try again to turn an open question into an answer.

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Things I Want To Know
Where two stubborn humans poke the darkness with a stick and hope it blinks first. If you know something about a case, report it to the actual police before you come knocking on our door. After that, sure, tell us. We’re already in too deep anyway.

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And when your curiosity needs a breather from all the murder, jump over to my other show, Paul G’s Corner, where history proves that saying it can’t happen here usually means it already did.


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Paul G:

So it's May 4th, 1991, in Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. A small delta town, rice fields on all sides, one grocery store, two churches, and a quiet that settles in when the sun starts to drop. My father grew up not far from here, in Stuttgart, Arkansas. So I know this land. I know how the air hangs heavy, how people wave from their porches, how trust feels like part of the soil. It's a safe kind of place. Or at least I thought it was. Her parents, James and Freda. Oh, they told her to be home after before dark. Just like they always did for us back then. No one thought twice about a kid walking the neighborhoods. She made it as far as the Bearcat grocery. And around 6:30, people saw her talking to a man in a light blue car. Long dark hair, a mustache. Very sev very timely 70s. One child said that Christina was talking to him and kept shaking her head no. By 8 o'clock, the streetlights came on, and by 9, her parents were knocking on doors. And by midnight, half the town was out with flashlights calling her name. Three days later, a man named Jackie White and his two boys found her little body floating in Cal Lake Ditch, four miles from town. That moment changed Hickory Ridge forever. As it should. So Andrea, this just is just isn't another small town story. Uh it's it's I guess it's what happens when good people trying to do the right thing get caught in something bigger than they're built for.

Andrea:

I'd say so. Just this is a little girl wanting to sell things door to door like everyone did in 1991. Yeah. I mean, that was kind of a thing that we did. I remember doing it with Girl Scout cookies. I remember doing it with mainly Girl Scouts, but like you went door to door. You ran around town, you're on your bikes. There was like it was a normal thing.

Paul G:

Well, the sheriff's office office, though, they did what they could. Uh the state police tried. Even the the FBI even showed up. Uh, but it's not New York or Chicago.

Andrea:

It's very, very small town, even for Arkansas.

Paul G:

1991, Arkansas Delta. 400 people lived there. Uh, you know, these people didn't have homicide units or forensic teams or anything like that.

Andrea:

I think the most the police department had to do was give traffic tickets, to be honest.

Paul G:

Well, you know, people break into stuff.

Andrea:

But you know, but even like then it was like probably people probably didn't even lock their doors, which is a very foreign concept for me because my family always locked their doors, you know, windows and that kind of thing. And and maybe it was because my mom grew up, grew up in California and that was more of a thing.

Paul G:

I don't know. You had the blue right, blue light rapists and a few other things happening about the time you're a little kid, too.

Andrea:

So I was 14 when this happened. So I was in like junior high. I mean, it was like, but I still we still locked our doors. But I am I can only picture the times we've driven through when we go to Florida, like the southern part of the state. It's it's like stepping into time.

Paul G:

It's like it is a lot of rice fields, it is a lot of soybeans, it's very much very we took a drive through there because I've explained it to you many times what it looked like, but it didn't really sink in till we actually went down there.

Andrea:

No, because it doesn't, because I only grew up in northwest Arkansas, and I mean we had Well, you saw Michigan. Yeah, Michigan, yeah. We the but it's not like this. I mean, Michigan had farmland, yeah. But in Lansing, not really. I mean, you had to drive 30 minutes north and you can see some of that. But it's like growing up here, it was cows and chickens, and it was like it was like not like rice and all around you is like these giant silos for rice and nothing else, and nothing else and one grocery store. I mean, uh, it was very different part of the state. So, but like any little kid, like my little when my kids grew up, we did fundraisers. It don't go door to door, and it makes me think did this case affect how we sell.

Paul G:

I don't know, because they were still selling world's finest chocolate door to door, and they'd give them the candy and they'd go and sell it. My dad was at not at this time, but a few years before, was actually the big rep for world's finest chocolate, where they they they did that. They went door to door. But again, this may be what caused that to stop.

Andrea:

But I just remember like I pretty much sold my daughter's Girl Scout cookies. I took it to work, people signed up. She couldn't, they told us not to go door to door. Uh, granted, we're a different time now, but uh just a girl wanting to like go out and fundraise and do something for her school, and someone boogeyman or whatever comes out of the dark and just snatches her.

Paul G:

Yeah. So, I mean, she's she's just doing what she's supposed to do and going down the road, right?

Andrea:

Yeah, she's uh going down the road. She's a fourth grader in elementary school. This was a common thing for her parents to let her go out, you know.

Paul G:

It's 400 people. I mean, it's not like you don't know who's around. Yeah, and you know there's no gambling hall next door.

Andrea:

But I remember as a kid, like riding my bike so long, she'd be home before dark. It wasn't a big deal.

Paul G:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Um I never came.

Paul G:

I mean, I always came home right after dark.

Andrea:

But like stranger danger, you're told stranger danger. Stranger danger. You know, don't tell anybody, you know, don't get in cars with strangers, this, that, and the other.

Paul G:

But I always got in cars with strangers. It was very much an adventure. Oh, Jesus.

Andrea:

What they bring you home?

Paul G:

No. Yeah. That's what my dad always said. Is he with my dad always told public people that I was adopted, but they kept bringing me back.

Andrea:

I do remember when he brought that up. I thought it was pretty funny. But you know, you're a parent, you're making dinner, where's your kid? You know, then you start to get scared, and that's when the whole entire your world crashes as a parent. I've never been down that road, but I can kind of I could feel I could see where that, you know, you're thinking, oh, she's at a friend's house. I'm gonna walk around and found her at so-and-so's house. But these people like panicked and they did the right thing. They looked for her first, and they're like, okay, I'm gonna call the police department.

Paul G:

Yeah. And so I guess it took what three days?

Andrea:

Uh yeah, it looks like she's on May 4th, was when she was, you know, went out to sell costume jewelry, and um basically May 7th is when she was found by Jackie White and his sons.

Paul G:

And you you can go on the internet and watch the interview with Jackie White. He's just a normal dude. He's like, whatever, I don't know, nothing.

Andrea:

Just a normal guy with his sons, and he said he went out to see if that was her and like what poked her with her stick and just just like see if it's well he didn't poke her with a stick.

Paul G:

He he it was turning her over because I mean if she's dead, you'd the first inclination for people in the modern age is don't touch the dead. Which is smart, actually. You catch disease.

Andrea:

Well, not that, it's just DNA. Like your DNA is gonna be on there. Uh she's in the ditch and then in the in the I mean, come on. I wouldn't, I'd be like, no. I'm just thinking like people should not do that because how are you gonna prove that you didn't do something to her if you touched her, even if it's innocently, you know?

Paul G:

Um, but yeah, if you see a dead body somewhere, don't interact with it. Run. Call the place. Call the cops. Yeah, immediately drop a Google pin or an Apple Maps pen or something.

Andrea:

But she's nine years old. She's a baby. She's just nine. She's a baby. Did you a baby? Well, I mean, I think of nine year olds as big, they're not really baby babies, but they're young.

Paul G:

Yeah, and they don't they're not necessarily trained to know the difference between good and bad either. I mean, they they do, but not all the brain is formed yet.

Andrea:

You know, there is, and I imagine in that area, and even up until like, you know, the early 2000s, there was a kind of a sense of innocence and sense of But she was walking around town.

Paul G:

She wasn't I mean, she was where the people were. She wasn't like off in a you know 900, you know, I don't even know. She wasn't off running around down the woods. No, she was I mean, they saw her at the grocery store, they saw the other kids saw her. She was well, the other kids were out too.

Andrea:

Yeah, she was doing her normal thing, trying to sell this jewelry for her school. She was just she's doing her thing and she gets snatched off the streets. She had to have been snatched. I mean, there's no way that she could have walked as far. What were they saying? Like what, four miles she was found?

Paul G:

Yeah, but and then she drowned. Her cause of death was drowning.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Paul G:

And they found that the uh they did another look at the autopsy and found uh that the water and mud match the place where she's at. But you know what? It's gonna match everywhere around there.

Andrea:

But you know, her basically her ditches are deep, by the way. Really? Her shoes.

Paul G:

Oh, they're extremely deep. They're probably they're probably five, six feet in some cases. Never below four feet.

Andrea:

But her shoes are missing, and what she was trying to sell is missing. We're recording this live, guys, and our dogs are going nuts.

Paul G:

The woofers. I think somebody is Emily here.

Andrea:

Oh you check. Thank God for like, you know, door cameras, you guys. You know, and our dogs, God love them. You know, they they're attention. They want in here, and so they want to go in here and they want to join us. And if we did have them join us, that you know, we would never get anything done. There's nobody here.

Paul G:

Because they'd want to go out again.

Andrea:

They want to like go bark at oh uh our neighbor. Come on, guys. Our neighbor pulled up her garage door and they hear somebody out there.

Paul G:

Yeah. Yeah. Woof woof. You know what I'm talking about. If you got dogs, you know this thing.

Andrea:

You know. It's us talking, it's live. It's you're gonna hear probably the chair squeak. Yeah, granted, some of you don't like that, but this is as raw as it gets.

Paul G:

I don't know. Um, not as raw as it gets. I mean I could put a lapel mic on and just drag you around the house with me.

Andrea:

No.

Paul G:

No? No. No? No. Okay.

Andrea:

Oh god, Paul, stop.

Paul G:

Here we go. Yeah, exactly. Um but no, she's so she was pounding four days, three, four days later, and and uh they still didn't know have any idea who it was. And the little kids were the ones that told them that they were drive they thought she was talking to some guy. And a blue car and blue car or truck. Blue car truck, yeah. And the the the other kids were like nine and ten as well. And no offense to anybody's and kids, but kids don't they can't get stuff right.

Andrea:

You know, it could have been here's the thing. I they're so easily led to anybody eyewitness testimony or anything like that. If you were to ask me like what kind of truck it was, I'd probably give you the color, but if it's make it model, I don't think I could.

Paul G:

And I'd get it wrong too. Probably probably 30% of the time I'd get it wrong. Because you're asking to snap judgment on something that I thought I saw earlier, I didn't write it down at the time. I I maybe.

Andrea:

You know, we still argue, is my car maroon or is it red?

Paul G:

I mean it's like this rust brown.

Andrea:

And I'm saying it looks like wine colored, so it's it's people's interpretations.

Paul G:

Yeah, yeah.

Andrea:

So uh, you know, but the kids did try. They you know that they said it was a someone, and we were watching some news little thing on it before we got on the mic. It basically these peak kids were saying there was like some foreign car in town, this, that, and the other.

Paul G:

So strange man.

Andrea:

But if you think about it, those small towns, people know when someone is new. Because if there's like 400 people in your town and you're sitting on your porch and you're waving everybody, you know who what everybody drives.

Paul G:

Unless it's on a major, you know, thoroughfare where people come and go all the time. And a lot of times in those little towns, I mean it's outside of when. Um, it may be if you're going from Pine Bluff to Stuckart, for example.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Paul G:

You're going to people just drive through in like England. To get to Stuckart from Little Rock, you n don't necessarily have to go through England. You could go stay on the highway and go around. But it's easier to go through England. England, Arkansas, England and uh so you go through England and there's constant cars and people driving through.

Andrea:

But this is some random we're gonna say guy, because just the statistics. Some random guy gets in his car and just decide he's gonna go cruising around and just pick up a little girl.

Paul G:

But that happens all the time, actually.

Andrea:

Well, all the other ones did it. Kemper, for example.

Paul G:

Yeah, yeah. Kemper was just hit picking up hitchhikers. He's out of California. Called the what was he, something killer? Uh girl killer or something.

Andrea:

Uh shoot, it's going out of my head, but yeah.

Paul G:

So the cops, they they're searching around, they're looking, they've come come across this guy, Tubbs.

Andrea:

Yeah, Tubbs, uh Robbie Dale Tubbs. Basically, just because his ex-wife said that he said the following statement.

Paul G:

Yeah, she turned him in.

Andrea:

She turned him in. They'll never find her. There's too many rice stitches around here for somebody to drown in. Now, you know, when I you first hear that, at least I did, I thought, oh, this dude did it. But then I step back and think, maybe he's just making an observation.

Paul G:

Like, I would say that.

Andrea:

You would I would definitely say that you would never hurt a child.

Paul G:

That was something that came out of my mouth for sure. Oh man, there's too many rice stitches around there. So she's dead.

Andrea:

Which, you know, it depends upon out of context. Also, it's ex-wife.

Paul G:

And yeah, ex-wife. But on top of that, though, he did, he did later, when he was being interrogated, admit to having sexual relations with a 14-year-old. Well, she's he said she was for that she said she was 14. But she was how old? 12. 12.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Paul G:

I've known girls who lie like that.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Paul G:

All my life. When I was young like that, they would they would lie. But still a 14 in your in your what in your 30s. Arkansas is legal in 14 at 14 back then for sure. I don't know if they changed it recently, but that's a that's a thing. It's okay.

Andrea:

I would think 14, that's a that's a child.

Paul G:

Yeah.

Andrea:

I mean, that's a child.

Paul G:

Mind your P's and Q's, boys.

Andrea:

Yes. Wait till they're legal age.

Paul G:

Yeah. No, I dated a 22-year-old one for about a one time, and I was like, ugh.

Andrea:

But yeah, but think for She was not.

Paul G:

This is a few years before I met you. Or a year before I met, or six months before I've met you. And I was like, I I'm not interested because she's too adolescent for me. But I'm thinking like But then the next one came along as 23, and I didn't have a problem with her.

Andrea:

I just don't get it. I like e i I don't know. I I would never in a million years look at somebody who's under I mean, who's I'm old enough to be their mother.

Paul G:

If they're in high school, I ain't doing it. I mean she's 14. I'm a little bit more open than that. And it wasn't about chasing the 22-year-olds. I mean it's a benefit, but it wasn't about that.

Andrea:

But this was a 22-year-old's legal.

Paul G:

Yeah.

Andrea:

This this person was was not.

Paul G:

But we don't why is he messing around with 14-year-olds?

Andrea:

And why was not charged?

Paul G:

Jailbait, brother?

Andrea:

Why was he not charged?

Paul G:

Well, age of consent in Arkansas at the time is 14.

Andrea:

Oh, there you go. I did look up something interesting though, like um, he supposedly like touched someone or uh supposedly admitted to having, you know, underage, 18 in sexual relationship. But I looked up something because I was curious before we got on, like, when did the sex offender registry become a thing in Arkansas?

Paul G:

Yeah.

Andrea:

1997.

Paul G:

Yeah, this was 9097. 91. 91, yeah. I was still in high school.

Andrea:

I was in junior high.

Paul G:

Yeah. I was running around zooming all the girls and band.

Andrea:

I guess all the smart girls are. But this, okay, so you take the statement this guy says, and it's like, okay, yeah, he did some shady stuff. But the interesting thing is though, they try to test some DNA, correct?

Paul G:

Well, they they charged him. They completely charged him. They charged him with murder. He's gonna go to trial. And the FBI stepped in to do some uh forensic tests on hairs that were found in his car, and the sheriff's department or somebody absolutely screwed up Royal.

Andrea:

They sent the wrong hairs in.

Paul G:

Yeah, they sent him the wrong hairs, and they did the DNA test. It's like, what is this?

Andrea:

And then they sent him another Yeah, they paused trial, and then they sent him the other hair in that it's correct hair, and there's not enough DNA evidence to get from that.

Paul G:

Yeah.

Andrea:

It's like, dude, okay.

Paul G:

But there's no other physical evidence leading him there. Why how in the world did they have and here's the problem that we've run into? I've been doing FOIA requests or Freedom of Information Act stuff, and I'm running into a brick wall and everything. Part of the problem is other podcasts have really, really made this difficult because they're burning. They really are. They're they're they're they're telling the investigators one thing and they're doing something else. At least that's in my interpretation of what's going on. So the investigators no longer want to talk to anyone.

Andrea:

I mean, I get that. They're putting their neck on the line. They're putting their they're you know, they have to be careful but trust anyone. You have you have to be careful what you say because you know it it's on the internet and can go everywhere. They're trying to do an open investigation, so they're already having to be very tight-lip.

Paul G:

So I mean they get burned. Now they're not gonna talk to us.

Andrea:

And I get it. I I get it.

Paul G:

I mean, you know We really all we're interested in is getting to know the fact. The facts is all we want to know.

Andrea:

Just the facts and try to help a family who's obviously lost their nine-year-old child and still has to wonder every anniversary or every birthday, like what happened to their daughter. And I I can only imagine how haunting that is.

Paul G:

Well, here's the really and one of the weirdest things about this case is that what was the wife's name again?

Andrea:

Uh, that turned it gave me it's a weird name. Oh. From what that turned them in? No, no, no, no.

Paul G:

No, the the the the girl's wife. Uh, it was this it's this this the strange one. She has it's Frida? No. I don't understand where you're going. I'd ask you the girl's mother's wife. Frida.

Andrea:

Frida, I said Frida.

Paul G:

You said Rita.

Andrea:

I said Frida.

Paul G:

You said Rita. My bad. Um Frida. Or Freda, I don't know. Frida, a few years before the case has gone to court, right? She's given, she's given her testimony as witness. And then all of a sudden, her and she she's at home one night, and these these two dudes break in, start ransacking the place, and when she tries to intervene, they murder her.

Andrea:

Oh, that was not Frida, that's the mom. You're talking about Yeah, Frida. The mom. Was it oh, was it the mom? I would have thought it was the uh um Oh no. The the No, it's not Frida.

Paul G:

Jesus, you're right.

Andrea:

It was the uh getting all confused now.

Paul G:

Yeah, we're getting no Sandra Tubbs. Yeah, the ex-wife, Sandra Tubbs. So she's giving testimony against her husband. Sorry. She's giving testimony against her husband, Miss Tubbs. And they're gonna go to court, but she can't be they can't use her testimony bec because she's murdered. She's murdered. She's dead. And the law says if you can't cross-examine a witness, then the testimony can't be used. And the defense never got a chance to to do a deposition of anything. So he can't say anything about his ex-wife's testimony, so they completely throw it out.

Andrea:

Yeah, he can walk because there's basically your evidence is is she died.

Paul G:

I mean, you know. You can't use her you if you have to be able to question her.

Andrea:

And she's not no longer with us.

Paul G:

To make sure that she's not lying.

Andrea:

So basically, this guy gets to walk.

Paul G:

Yeah. And they have to let him go.

Andrea:

I mean, they they have no other proof. I mean, they messed up the hair, the other one has no DNA evidence. They the They don't have any physical evidence. They have no physical evidence. There's no she was in water, so pretty much any physical evidence is probably gone.

Paul G:

And they say there was no physical assault or or sexual assault that they could that visible sexual assault. So I'm thinking that the sheriff's department's holding back that they're holding back on any um any evidence if there was a sexual assault.

Andrea:

I mean, I don't know. I'm just throwing this out here, but like say she just for for hypothetical situation, maybe she was raped. Can you get semen out of a body that's been in the water?

Paul G:

I mean, it depends on the conditions, you know. I mean, we don't really know other than we can get into the details and be gross about it, but it you know if you're not sure.

Andrea:

I mean, I don't that makes me think like you're in the water, like you've washed everything away, I would think.

Paul G:

Unless it's not or it's still in the body.

Andrea:

Yeah, I don't think I could put it. I think I would think they DNA test that against this guy.

Paul G:

Well, it I then obviously they don't have it. Then DNA was still in its, I mean it's barely being used in 91.

Andrea:

That's true. And I don't know how when Arkansas became using it. I who knows? Maybe maybe they don't have anything. Maybe what they do have could be like not you can't test it because it was in the water. Maybe it's so minuscule that you can't. I mean, we get touch DNA now. That wasn't even a thing back then.

Paul G:

I mean, you can get DNA from paper from sneezing on somebody.

Andrea:

I mean, it's kind of amazing, but kind of like creepy at the same time.

Paul G:

So Dr. Fammy Malik, not sure. They've medical examiner down there, probably for the state of Arkansas. Uh, he estimated that she'd been in the water about three days. So she was killed almost immediately.

Andrea:

So think about it. You're a guy, or I'm gonna say Why would you kill a little kid like that?

Paul G:

Who cares?

Andrea:

I don't know, man.

Paul G:

Let him go.

Andrea:

I would because she is an eyewitness to who they are. But what if they hadn't done anything? If he's a stranger, let her go, I think would I'm more sure. You haven't done anything though. I mean, to me, I would I would never think about this. But I guess if you're a crime of opportunity person and you're gonna leave town, let her go. Right?

Paul G:

Yeah, get the hell out. But he was from around there, he wasn't too far away.

Andrea:

You don't think so?

Paul G:

Yeah, he the if it was this Robbie Tubbs, he didn't live too far away.

Andrea:

But that's why he didn't want her to identify him.

Paul G:

But but uh they say nothing's happened to her. She wasn't abused, she wasn't sexually abused. So why kill her?

Andrea:

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Why would you do it? Obviously, I don't think uh like you know, a nine-year-old would have like bankrolling on costume jewelry. You know what I'm saying?

Paul G:

She may have had like 20 bucks at most.

Andrea:

She's not like carrying around if like $500.

Paul G:

I mean they're not gonna send you out with and you want $90 for this costume jewelry in $1991. Five bucks or something, if even that most.

Andrea:

So I don't think like why would you hurt five or ten dollars? Why would you hurt?

Paul G:

She might add a hundred bucks if she did good.

Andrea:

But to murder a little girl over a hundred dollars. That's a cold individual.

Paul G:

Stupid's what it is. So uh people have killed for less, yes, you know. Yes, true. But at the same time, why? It doesn't make sense to me. I mean crimes you generally don't make sense, but just take your money and leave. Who cares?

Andrea:

I'm thinking if you're gonna leave town and like never go back through there, just take the money and run and leave the girl alone. Obviously, you hurting her and murdering her and drowning her, you probably are close to home or work around there or have some connection to the town. They only have what, 400 people at the time?

Paul G:

Yeah. So the cashier lady when it was interviewed 30 years later by another podcast.

Andrea:

Oh, okay.

Paul G:

She was interviewed the cashier at the Bearcat Grocery. She kept, she was so involved in this, she kept the the sketch that was handed out in 30 years for 30 years of the guy that they the kids claimed that did it. And she reports, she says that she saw Christina walk into the store that evening, but didn't have any jewelry or even a box, even though she's supposed to be carrying this jewelry box around. Now, it's an eyewitness, and how reparable, you know, how much can we trust that? Almost none.

Andrea:

I mean, people like you know, can do uh I I just know with my kids, maybe she left the box outside, went inside of the freaking like, you know, grocery store to go to the bathroom. I mean, my kids have done silly stuff like that where they've left things behind. Or I had Emily one time at a Silver City, one of their local thing parks here. You buy this cup and it's supposed to last you all season. She set it down and left it there. Like hey, was it completely oblivious to what she was? She was nine, though. Emily was nine when she did this too. Completely oblivious to kind of like certain things.

Paul G:

Yeah.

Andrea:

But she was studious enough to say no to this guy. So obviously her parents taught her some stranger danger techniques.

Paul G:

Well, according to the other kids.

Andrea:

Yes, according to the other kids.

Paul G:

Which the kids could be making it up to make the investigators happy too. To please them. Kids do that constantly.

Andrea:

True. True. I would like to think that they would be, you know, tell the truth. But I mean, kids want they don't want their friend to be painted in a bad light.

Paul G:

True. Uh there was another guy that they that these this podcast is pointing fingers at. But I don't really see I mean, they just have it's all hearsay. I don't know. I just don't see it. Charles Cotton, a neighbor who borrowed money from James Pipkin.

Andrea:

Which is a dad.

Paul G:

Yeah. Uh he showed up in in search efforts, I guess. So is he they're saying trying to say that maybe he inserted himself into the investigation? Which I can see that. I mean, I've that's that's a number one thing to look for when you're looking for somebody who's killed someone. They want to know what you know so they can see when they're in the clear or when they're done.

Andrea:

Well, if that's the case, then DNA test the guy.

Paul G:

For what?

Andrea:

Yeah, we don't have any proof. Yeah. Uh but I don't know, like maybe I get the impression it's a very small town that everybody come together. You're gonna have to like if that's the case in every person that like freaking look for this girl's a suspect in the whole entire town.

Paul G:

Yeah, and you know, Sandra, this this wonderful Sandra who's going around telling on everybody and hopefully I'm I'm gonna assume that they're true. Um I I but you can't prove it. She claimed that Jackie, uh, another friend linked to Robbie, also like little girls just like Robbie. So she's pointing the fingers at her at her ex-husband and ex-husband's friend.

Andrea:

You know, I hate to say this, but sometimes, you know, they say pedophiles find pedophiles in prison.

Paul G:

Yeah, well, it's because all the rest of them want them dead.

Andrea:

Well, I can kind of understand that. But you know them.

Paul G:

If you put me in prison and a and if I was there doing a life sentence and never gonna get out and a pedophile showed up, I'd I'd I'd that'd be over. But be like, what am I gonna do? Stick me in prison for the rest of my life.

Andrea:

But my thing is, is like, what do you have against what what is either A, you're wanting to be a good, true Samaritan and do the right thing and turn in what you know about your husband, Lord knows what the relationship was like. Maybe he like this horrible to her and she's trying to talk about it. Or two, you hate his guts and you want to put everybody down. My question is, as I would start investigating why she keeps saying this, you know, just for to either have the lead die, yeah, or dig into it more.

Paul G:

Well, and you know, you need to talk to her because if she's making it up because she's a vengeful spouse, ex-spouse.

Andrea:

Which is possible.

Paul G:

I've met those people.

Andrea:

I have too.

Paul G:

And they're not good. Uh let's see. And so yeah, I mean, I don't really see he had a AMC Eagle that was brown. The vehicle they say the kid said was a blue car.

Andrea:

Blue car, correct.

Paul G:

Which is this this this cotton guy drove a blue car. But I drive a blue car. Yeah. So what does that mean? Absolutely nothing.

Andrea:

You know, a blue car, little kids though, they don't know make and models. Like, I don't really know. I know make and models, but if you want you put a Ford and a Chevy next to each other trucks, I wouldn't be able to tell you which is which. Why not? Just because you know, some people don't little kids, I don't know. Like, I guess quiz a nine-year-old. What kind of car is this? It's a blue car. It's a blue truck. I mean, to me, that's kind of like they don't they don't they're kind of in their own little world in your nine, ten adults are in their own world. I mean, that's basic.

Paul G:

So really all they have is I mean, really all they have is hearsay evidence. But think about it. How could they even take this guy to trial with hearsay evidence? I don't know. There's nothing tangible here.

Andrea:

You know, there's no DNA. But DNA won the thing back then. There was something circumstantial. They're gonna jump on it because this is a nine year old little girl that was cre killed.

Paul G:

But you can't I don't I don't see it. I don't understand. Prosecutors are generally They wouldn't win. And they won't especially now. When you look at federal prosecutors, the reason why the federal prosecutors' prosecution win rate is 98%.

Andrea:

They only bring it to trial if they know they got to win.

Paul G:

Yeah. Otherwise, they they skip it.

Andrea:

Which I I I guess it's a reputation thing.

Paul G:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. These guys are two true alpha males and females. They really want they're they're very competitive.

Andrea:

But you also want to make sure you're putting the correct person on trial. Because if you think about it, Arkansas's done it with, let's just say, the West Memphis three. We butchered that.

Paul G:

Oh my gosh. And you know, this is the same found time period. That we the state troopers and everything. It's the same same time period.

Andrea:

They're willing to jump on whatever because they want to get the boogeyman out of the town.

Paul G:

It really sucks as the West Memphis Three were treated the way they were because they had to take an Alfred pre plea.

Andrea:

Yeah, they completely other ignored other evidence. That's not a case I don't really think we should get into because it is like way, it makes Arkansas look awful.

Paul G:

It does.

Andrea:

I mean, it's known all over National.

Paul G:

They're, you know, I I don't think the Alfred plea should be an actual plea, honestly. I think either they're innocent or they're not. And stick stick to it.

Andrea:

But there can be a lot of circumstantial stuff that can completely ruin you, but it's circumstantial. So, you know, uh they didn't look into anybody else, did they, in this case?

Paul G:

They did not. But I mean this is their only suspect in the in the pimpkin.

Andrea:

This is what made me look up the pen pedophile thing, because I was like, okay, did we have a pedophile registry in 1991? We did not. So I would like to think if this was to happen now, granted we'd have DNA, but would we start looking at sex offenders in the area? But we don't know. There's she wasn't sexually assaulted, but that would be the first thing you would go to. Other why else would you pick up a child?

Paul G:

Well, she you know, she was carrying around money. So there is that. But I don't see killing a nine-year-old over 20 bucks.

Andrea:

I don't either.

Paul G:

But then again, I'm not someone who would kill anybody over a million dollars.

Andrea:

I mean we both are that way, so it it's kind of out of our ability to comprehend.

Paul G:

So check this out. So in in in the commercial appeal, it's called the newspaper used to be called the commercial appeal out of the little out of Little Rock. All right. Uh reporter Joan A. I. Duffy. This is in the 90s when newspapers actually were a thing.

Andrea:

When people read them.

Paul G:

Yeah. Martin Lilly, Tubbs's lawyer, said the news that prosecutors are dropping the case did not surprise him. We certainly expected it to happen, he said. We knew there was no evidence relating that girl to him. The prosecution admitted the only evidence they really had was the hair and they didn't test it right. He said if they'd done it right the first time, then he never would have been arrested to begin with. Wow. And they're hinging their entire case on one hair they found in his car, which could be a dog, which could be his wife, could be his children if he had kids. His children or his children's friends if he took them home.

Andrea:

Uh yeah, one hair, but is one hair enough evidence unless you have a the bulb attached to it for DNA?

Paul G:

Back then you'd have to have the bulb, yeah.

Andrea:

I mean, because think about it, like that that's all you got. Is that really enough to convict someone?

Paul G:

For all we know, maybe I would be so pissed off at my former wife.

Andrea:

But think about it though. What if Pipkin, and what we don't know if he had kids. We're playing hypothetical here, okay? What if he had a son or a daughter? And what if they, you know, were friends with Ms. Pipkin, you know, Christine Pimpkin, and you took this girl home innocently.

Paul G:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Because, you know, I've taken a lot of my kids as friends home, and you know, and vice versa. And that's what's going to convict you on something as innocent as that. There's got to be more than just one hair. I granted, that's sometimes that's all it takes, but you want to play devil's advocate here. We don't know if he had kids. I'm just playing hypothetical because he doesn't really talk much about that. We can find anything on this guy. And I don't blame him.

Paul G:

He probably didn't really dig that deep on him because I'm like, there's something going on with this case. I I I don't know if they actually looked for the person who did it. I think they just took this. You gotta remember the the entire thing is based off of his ex-wife saying that I think he might have done it because he said there's too many rice stitches in the area. They'll never find her, she's dead. Which that can either be definitely words that would have come out of my mouth.

Andrea:

Yeah, and you wouldn't hurt anybody.

Paul G:

No, and no one would suspect me of it. I mean, I I'm a supposition kind of guy, and that would be a supposition. And there are lots of rice stitches, lots of rice fields. Those rice fields are can have up to six inches of water.

Andrea:

But the sad thing is is they didn't investigate anybody else, and we have no proof of anything, so this poor family.

Paul G:

And all because the ex-wife.

Andrea:

Which is why, you know.

Paul G:

I don't understand why anybody would take. Were they so desperate to have somebody on the hook for this that that's what they had to do?

Andrea:

Well, they did to West Memphis 3, same thing. They were desperate to find somebody to fit the thing in. Who cares?

Paul G:

I mean, do it right or don't do it.

Andrea:

There's a thing of, you know, sometimes a corruption in all town small towns.

Paul G:

It's really corruption. I don't think it's just corruption because nobody paid them to do it. They just weren't doing their job correctly.

Andrea:

Because everybody wants a happy ending in the end. And I get that.

Paul G:

It reminds me of that cartoon. Chinese thing, stop.

Andrea:

I don't mean it like that.

Paul G:

Do you want the happy ending or sad ending? He picks a sad ending, and the woman comes in, she's playing a violin, nerd, nerd, nerd, and then the kid's crying because his dog's dead.

Andrea:

Oh gosh, stop. I just feel bad because this case is I pulled it off the Dove Network. And I guess if you go on the website, they have like all sorts of things about people who've been identified and stuff, and you know what they know about him and the last thing. And they have also people on here that very they have no name, just where they were found. And this one kind of jumped out at me because she's nine.

Paul G:

And it just like I really don't see that this case will ever be solved. I don't there's no evidence on anything. She was in the water. I think we'll never know unless somebody confesses who did it.

Andrea:

Honestly, it'll be one of those deathbed confessions. If if if it happens, if it even happens.

Paul G:

There's nothing here. And um, you know, you can run down all these other suspects you want from hearsay, but i I it it goes back to like that clerk saying that the other guy did this and then blah, blah, blah, blah, and the ex-wife saying, well, this other guy did this. You know, I find her I find her statement suspect as hell. And I would want to know her motivations, which is a ri the exact reason why I got thrown out of court.

Andrea:

Which I get that. I mean, but yeah, I would like to think that you but You gotta have more. Now more than hair. But there's nothing on her, which is sad. Either A, this is a crime of opportunity where someone who's highly skilled and extremely like No, they drowned her, so you know maybe he pushed her out of the car and she fell and hit her head and drowned.

Paul G:

And that could also be true. But there was no signs of physical of physical violence on her body.

Andrea:

Or he just held her head under because he just wanted it over. He or she. I'm saying he kisses.

Paul G:

You can knock him out with ether, and you'll never know that ether's in the body unless you take a really specific test. And back then they weren't doing that.

Andrea:

Just it's a sad story.

Paul G:

I mean, there's a thousand ways that this could have gone out, but we would never know. And I really don't think this will ever, ever get solved.

Andrea:

So what do you think? I I don't think really. I honestly I don't think it will, but I'd like to have hope that it would.

Paul G:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Just for the fact that I'm a mom and if for her sake as a her mother, I feel it. You know, the wrong hair, the chain of custody, somebody needs to get fired for that. Yeah.

Paul G:

They probably did.

Andrea:

But you know then again, it's a small sheriff's department. There are probably ten people working there. Yeah, or like you know, I lived in Carroll County, not far from here. And four officers, and it's it's not for a hundred thousand people, they have four sheriff's departments. Four sheriff's officers. You know, uh, I get it. They don't, it's not like they ran across murder on a daily basis.

Paul G:

Yeah, the most they ever came across was he kicked my dog, you know.

Andrea:

Or a traffic thing, yeah, traffic accident.

Paul G:

They're burning trash on my property.

Andrea:

Yeah, exactly. So they don't know, but you know, uh with more like forensic shows and you know, true crime issues and like, you know, FBI profiling, at least people know a little bit more than they did in 91.

Paul G:

But on this particular case, there's no possible way you could find. I mean, what evidence could you find? You have eyewitnesses saying that she may have talked to some dude who had a mustache and long hair.

Andrea:

That's a 91. Like most people like still had mullets.

Paul G:

89, especially out there in the woods.

Andrea:

Had mullets. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul G:

I had a mullet. It was a very classy mullet, but it was a mullet.

Andrea:

Like Joe Dirt mullet.

Paul G:

I did not have a Joe Dirt mullet.

Andrea:

I'm just picturing this guy as a Joe Dirt mullet kind of guy.

Paul G:

No, he had that 70s hair, like the guy from Christine, the bad guy from Christine.

Andrea:

Oh, he did.

Paul G:

This the student in in Christine that was bullying the guy. Oh, yeah, yeah. That big hair with the mustache.

Andrea:

But you know, like uh people who draw these things praise you, but I couldn't draw a stick figure. But you know, but uh it's a very generic sketch. Uh unless but these are kids looking at it from like, you know, a distance. You most kids are not gonna go, he had this, he had that. Yeah, you know, unless you like probably listen to true pride crime podcasts, or you're gonna see people, or you're gonna be like analyzing them, and you know, but I just I don't know. It's a sad story for a nine-year-old girl, and it jumped out at me on the Doe Network because they have these, they do cases of the month out here, the ones that they want to put out there is that advertised for people.

Paul G:

Why would they put so here's the thing here's the interesting thing, the biggest interesting thing about this is because they tried him, they put him on trial.

Andrea:

They stopped the trial, didn't they?

Paul G:

The evidence fell apart.

Andrea:

Yeah, so he has no trial.

Paul G:

Right. But double jeopardy applies. He, even if he came out and said he killed her, he could never be tried again.

Andrea:

But they didn't try him.

Paul G:

Yeah, but he was on trial and dropped charges because of it. Because they can't they they confess they can't prove it. You can't be tried again. They gotta they gotta do it right.

Andrea:

Wow. I thought like if I took it as they dropped it before trial started.

Paul G:

No, no, the trial was on, it was on. So they were doing the trial.

Andrea:

So you're going to trial and you're the prosecutor. You might want to.

Paul G:

They did this in 2000, even after Tubbs's ex-wife died. Because she died in 94.

Andrea:

Why did they wait so long?

Paul G:

I want to know. Did I want to see the investigation on that? Who killed her? Was it Tubbs and his buddies because she was talking too much? More than likely, she's pissing a lot of people off because she sounds like she's not a nice person because she's telling people they did this, they did that. Didn't they say throwing people under the bus constantly.

Andrea:

Well, didn't they say it was a robbery?

Paul G:

Yeah, it was a robbery.

Andrea:

But I mean, things happen. Yeah, they maybe they're related. I don't know. Uh I wouldn't know. But that's kind of odd that your your star witness dies. I'm not saying it sounds like mob, but this is there's no mob.

Paul G:

Yeah, there's no mob there. And the good old boy network didn't didn't exist because this guy left the area. Got he got the hell out of dogs.

Andrea:

Well, he had to.

Paul G:

Well, yeah, yeah, dude.

Andrea:

I mean, and he's never gonna work again. We listen, I'll watch something about how he's he had, you know, had got married again, had kids, and his poor kids, you know, are uh known as like your dad killed this person, and they've kind of taken it on didn't he die, I think. I don't know, taken us on a quest to kind of like figure this out for them sakes, because and you know, for them being in that area, everybody probably knows that case. And then, you know, you have the last name.

Paul G:

I'd hear I'd even heard of it, and I don't just in passing, I'd I remember something about it, but not much.

Andrea:

I hadn't till I was like digging in the dough network and I like looked into Arkansas case.

Paul G:

I mean I heard of it. I didn't mean I understood it or blocked it because I was just a kid. I was going down the Stuttgart every time or every year, twice a year, Easter and Thanksgiving to see my grandparents and talk to the rest of the family because when you know we were down there.

Andrea:

But it's just like I don't know.

Paul G:

But also, though, I so I really think it's just one of those unsolved and permanently unsolved cases. It probably will be, unfortunately. So, but I do have updates about our other case.

Andrea:

Ooh, what are the updates?

Paul G:

Really?

Andrea:

Ooh, what are the updates? I'm trying to be like, you know, like the algino.

Paul G:

You were in van, not a cheerleader.

Andrea:

Oh well, you know. I'm trying to be like, tell me, I'm just trying to like you.

Paul G:

You can tell me more. Are you flirting with me now?

Andrea:

We're married.

Paul G:

Oh, yeah, that's right. We're married, so no longer would you flirt with me.

Andrea:

Oh, Jesus, stop. So what are our updates?

Paul G:

The the I so I FOIA'd Springdale Police Department. Oh, yes, you did. On our this thing that I found that I came across where they uh a guy tried to somebody tried to blow up an officer in his truck after he got off work. A Springdale Police officer.

Andrea:

That's still very mind-blowing.

Paul G:

Yeah, in 1972. Yeah, yeah, because before I was born. And so I foyed it and Washington County said we have no records on it. There was a see the Washington County should have records on it because it was a um uh grand jury that's held by the Washington County court system.

Andrea:

You would think that'd have records, but that probably whoever's behind that counter didn't want to look it up.

Paul G:

Well they have to, it's illegal not to. So if you prove that, we win like 10 grand off the state off the state.

Andrea:

But I'm sure there's some technicality of some box we didn't.

Paul G:

They just didn't find it.

Andrea:

They didn't find it.

Paul G:

Yeah. But the Springdale has everything.

Andrea:

Which I find that fascinating.

Paul G:

Yeah. And she said in the email that she's got there's so much paperwork involved in it that they couldn't print it. They'll have to put it on a thumb drive.

Andrea:

Let's get the thumb drive.

Paul G:

That's what we're gonna do. So she's got it done to read this week or next.

Andrea:

Well, that'll be cool to dig into that.

Paul G:

That'll be like it'll she said there's so much. So it's more than it means it's more than a hundred pages. Wow. And I never This is crazy. Why so so this case it blew up or the guy got blown up? He didn't die, he was injured. Took it to a grand jury, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? It went on for a year and then it disappeared. Nobody said another word about it. And I was screwing around looking at some kind of history thing about Springdale, and I this and I was looking at a newspaper about something else in the archives and saw this, and I'm like, whoa, what is that? That's crazy.

Andrea:

As to why it died would be interesting to know what the records say.

Paul G:

Probably his own.

Andrea:

Why would you do that to yourself?

Paul G:

People are stupid. But I don't know if that's true. We don't know why it's true. It's a biker gang, some but some people say it's drugs. Could be drugs were pretty like a big thing back then. Biker gangs back then, yeah.

Andrea:

Yeah, yeah.

Paul G:

And uh, you know, bombings were the all the rage that were happening all over Maine and New York City at the time and Chicago, Cleveland.

Andrea:

That's crazy.

Paul G:

But so I've got all those records that I'm gonna have to we're gonna have to sift through. It's gonna be fun.

Andrea:

I think it'll be fun.

Paul G:

Just to see. I'm gonna throw it all into chat GPT and let it help me sort through it. Synopsis. Something like that, yeah. I mean, for those of you who think AI is monstrous, is going to kill you, Andrea.

Andrea:

I'm not that bad. I just don't like AI robot like robots and stuff like that. I think, you know, that's slightly creepy to me.

Paul G:

She's a Terminator believer.

Andrea:

No, I'm not that bad. But if you have what was the movie I watched that had the Oh, that girl. With the little the girl doll that uh was uh the other one was crazier with the Danny. Oh, yeah.

Paul G:

Remember, he got the he bought the nanny?

Andrea:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul G:

And he fell in love with the nanny. Yeah, that that was like if if you don't want your husband to have sex with the nanny by a robot nanny that doesn't have the proper parts. Why did they make this robot danny have the proper parts? That's what I want to know. Anyway, that's a whole other topic for a whole other time. But uh AI helps a lot because I can do what would probably take me four full days to research. I can do that research in about two hours and pull up everything.

Andrea:

What's the movie Megan that freaked me out? Megan, that movie freaked me out.

Paul G:

The other one is the cool one is expaking, though.

Andrea:

That one was cool too.

Paul G:

Ex Machina.

Andrea:

That one kind of freaked me out too. It was very good.

Paul G:

Yeah, she tricked everybody and killed them all.

Andrea:

Yeah, it's like I said, robots are creepy.

Paul G:

I used to want one that can do the dishes and mess with it no more.

Andrea:

That's me. But I'm not a robot. No, no, no. Because I had to listen to you complain about it. Well, no. Wouldn't you like to not have to do the dishes? There's a lot of things I wouldn't like to do, but it's called life. So mean.

Paul G:

I don't know what she's referring to when she says a lot of things I don't want to do.

Andrea:

You know, like give me a list. I'm gonna know. Who wants to like vacuum the house and mop the floors? Nobody wants to do that.

Paul G:

Every now and again, it's okay. So it's like I like doing it in my old place.

Andrea:

You didn't have like your whole entire house be tile. I have a whole entire house with carpet. You know, you get I guess you pick your battles. Yeah, right there. Yeah. What? Um chicken the weather. Checking the weather? I have this apple watch and it dings me and I always think it's my kids when they're at home.

Paul G:

Yeah, it's I I've gotten to this bad habit when she gets a text.

Andrea:

I'm like, now what? I'm like, nothing. If somebody wants to sell me something.

Paul G:

Yeah, because for a little about two years there, every time we were watching dinged, it was one of her kids having a breakdown or something.

Andrea:

No, yeah, they're kids.

Paul G:

So and but we've also looked into the Debbie or Don Don, what was her name? Always get it wrong.

Andrea:

Uh Stidum.

Paul G:

Stidum. Sitdom case. Yeah, and we cannot get any documents for that.

Andrea:

Nope. We tried.

Paul G:

And I left a call for the investigator of cold cases. She's not gonna call me back.

Andrea:

Which she had another podcast that reached out to her, and I think she got a little burnt.

Paul G:

Yeah, because that guy's going off on stupid tangents that have nothing to do with the case.

Andrea:

We might cover some cases that have actually been solved so we maybe can get a little bit more information.

Paul G:

Yeah. Well, there's this really cool one. Oh my gosh. One I was gonna bring up to you, and I'll do it now while we're recording so you can be surprised, I suppose.

Andrea:

I don't know.

Paul G:

Uh and that is the uh where did he go? I'm looking through all this. Oh, it's a gone.

Andrea:

Oh, again. I kind of want to see if we can find information on the one that went my mother mentioned about a poor little lady that got like killed in her house.

Paul G:

The Rogers Halloween murder.

Andrea:

Rogers Halloween murder in 97. I didn't even know that was a thing, or it was in 95, 95. I didn't even know that that was a thing. And I was in high school.

Paul G:

Poor woman. Somebody's done something on it because there's like this weird picture on the internet.

Andrea:

Yeah, poor thing.

Paul G:

Ernestine Andreg.

Andrea:

Yeah, we're gonna do some digging on her because that's just sad. Like, you know, in 95-96, people were still going door to door trick-or-treating, and it was like, you know, it was your Halloween time, fun time, dress up, have a good time. And she's just handing out candy, and then she's found dead on her kitchen floor. That's just awful.

Paul G:

Yeah. Devil in Poe Candy. Which one's that? So there's the one down in uh down in, I think, Clarksville. This is one that the guy killed 14 people.

Andrea:

Fourteen people?

Paul G:

Yeah, I haven't told you about this. Ronald Gene Simmons.

Andrea:

That name sounds familiar.

Paul G:

It should. Uh the deadliest known mass killing in Arkansas history. He killed 16 people in December of 1987 over a period of days. Fourteen members of his own and extended family, and two people he used to work with. He killed people that were as young as months old.

Andrea:

Is this the one where he did it like over a h like a holiday or something?

Paul G:

Yeah. Christmas. Did it over Christmas.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Paul G:

And we can get all that information on that. And yes, it's been done before, but it's like, wow.

Andrea:

We'd like to kind of dig into it and see what anything newbie can find. This guy was crazy. Her own perspectives, or maybe like why would you massacre your whole entire family?

Paul G:

Yeah. Then you get the Jersey Bridgman murder case.

Andrea:

Okay.

Paul G:

And that's an interesting one. And we need to look into this one. I think this is one that we don't know anything about. Jersey Diane Bridgman in 2012 here in Bentonville. Oh wow. She was a a a six-year-old taken from her home and found murdered by her next door neighbor.

Andrea:

Oh, that's messed up. Who's watching her. Really? 2012. I mean, that's a little bit ago, but in the scheme of things for some of us here a little bit older, that's not that long ago.

Paul G:

And then I found a serial killer. Uh Carmelo di Jesus. But I don't think it's a serial killer. They claim he's a serial killer, but I think he was just a dude with a really bad temper. Honestly. He's only they only have four people that it they can guarantee he's killed. He says it's close to twenty.

Andrea:

Well, they say three is enough for that. Well, yeah, you shouldn't murder anybody, but by three is the definition of guess what it is.

Paul G:

He admitted to four and then admitted to almost twenty more. Where's the proof? Yeah, that's the problem, is the proof. So I I I think we would need to nail down what a serial killer actually is, because I don't think he was a serial I think he just had a really bad anger problem. Yes, he's a serial killer in technical sp sense, I guess. But he's not a spree killer, right?

Andrea:

I mean, uh we always take it like serial killers, like you have a particular type of he killed people with knives, strangulation, eatings, and shooting. You have a particular like pattern of he just wanted to kill people.

Paul G:

I think he just got pissed off. Honestly.

Andrea:

There's drugs that can help control your like anger, dude. Yeah, he was like old.

Paul G:

He was born in 34, so this all happened in 73.

Andrea:

Wow.

Paul G:

Okay. Oh, he died in 19 he died in prison in 1973.

Andrea:

Oh, okay.

Paul G:

So I don't yeah, I just don't think he I I think he was just pissy.

Andrea:

Lots of people are just pissy, but you know.

Paul G:

Don't kill people.

Andrea:

Give him Snickers bar, maybe he'll shut up.

Paul G:

But there's all kinds, you know, I'm finding all these different all these different cases that are very interesting. There's a lot of there's only a few, I've been putting together an entire list.

Andrea:

This is all out of Arkansas, right?

Paul G:

No, that guy's not. That that guy's out of Florida and New Jersey. Oh, okay. Um I was trying to find serial killers that nobody's talked about.

Andrea:

Okay.

Paul G:

What I was working on. Um, but there's what is this one here? Oh, it's an Excel, that's why. I know, I've got it out of a couple hundred. No, fifty-five, fifty-five.

Andrea:

Fifty-five, fifty-five.

Paul G:

This is not the list that I'm showing you right now. But here's Ebbie Stepek. Larry Eugene Christian Marlon Anthony Franklin. These are all out of those are just out of Little Rock. Wow. Twenty-five, twenty-four, and twenty-one. Yeah. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Andrea:

Interesting. This will be interesting to like d dive into those.

Paul G:

Yeah. Um and it just gets the list just gets deeper and deeper and deeper.

Andrea:

We're just like any other state, we have our own issues.

Paul G:

Yeah. I mean it's it's you know, it's track's pretty good because the population's only three million, two and a half million people.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Paul G:

So the murder rate is actually not bad when you consider how many people are here.

Andrea:

That's true.

Paul G:

Versus you know like New York City. Yeah, that's seven million people just living in New York City.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Paul G:

That's a lot of people. Yeah, and the boroughs and all that stuff. Then you've got Long Island all the way over to Wall Street.

Andrea:

That's crazy.

Paul G:

Because you dealt with people from Long Island, and it was it was great and all, but not the greatest.

Andrea:

Yeah, we're not I'm not used to you know, I've never been up to that part of the country, so they can get a little little little rough sometimes.

Paul G:

They probably think that we're about idiots in the South, so well You know, like I said, when people when I tell people where I'm from and they'd say, Well, is that Bill Clinton's the country? And I said, Well, we're not as backward as we used to be. What do you mean? So back in the toilets. Well, back in 1992, we passed a law where everyone has to wear shoes.

Andrea:

Wah wah wah.

Paul G:

So what else we got going on? Anything? We don't know.

Andrea:

I think that's it.

Paul G:

All right. So there's the the things we want to know. We want to know who killed this girl, but I don't think we ever will.

Andrea:

Well, if anybody has any information or anything out there of anything they want to cover.

Paul G:

Call the Arkansas State Police.

Andrea:

Please call the Arkansas State Police. Let's find some hope for this family, for the mom, for the dad.

Paul G:

I mean, that's gotta be very the the the relatives at this point.

Andrea:

I think they need to know. They need they need closure.

Paul G:

I don't know. Closure is such a kind of a dumb thing. I don't know if closure actually exists.

Andrea:

I think they need to know what happened so they can answer that. They want to know what happened to their daughter. And I think that's for me as a parent, that's be what I want to know. Will there ever be closure? Probably not. But I think for them, knowing what happened wouldn't have let them have the unknown known. Yeah.

Paul G:

All right. And uh go to the website. I'm just gonna break it right here. Boom. Hey, come here. Go to the website. Paul G Newton at FireSwag. Paul Gnewton.com. It has buy our swag. It's a button there that says buy our swag. If you touch that, I guess you have an interesting internet. Or just use your mouse.

Andrea:

What is it, a hamburger flying or something?

Paul G:

Yeah, it's a it's a space hamburger.

Andrea:

Space hamburger, yeah.

Paul G:

Yes. Spaceship is a hamburger.

Andrea:

Which we thought was kind of silly and funny. I like the cat one that's pretty funny.

Paul G:

Yeah. You like the cat. Yeah. What did it say? I don't even remember.

Andrea:

But it's it's funny. Anyone who likes cats, you'll get it.

Paul G:

Yeah. And then you can buy things I want to know, a sweatshirt for 60 bucks, which isn't actually all that bad.

Andrea:

Yeah, considering what their places are for like hoodies and stuff now.

Paul G:

Exactly. 60 bucks ain't bad. Uh but you can do that, or you can just send us money. Either way. Oh?

Andrea:

Send me one and send you one.

Paul G:

Yeah, send me all the money.

Andrea:

Okay.

Paul G:

And I'll share it with Andrew. Maybe. No, I'll share it with you. You can share it with me, okay. I didn't say the percentage of sharing. I'll get a quarter. Maybe a penny. Oh, you get more than that. Get more than that. You're worth more than that. Oh, thank you. I mean, you know, in the reason.

Andrea:

Give us like five stars. Four stars.

Paul G:

I want 72.

Andrea:

If you don't like us, I'm sorry.

Paul G:

Well, you can send us an email and I'll put it on the wall. What's the rest of it? And we'll read it on air. Yeah, we oh yeah, absolutely.

Andrea:

If you like us, you know, give us a comment and we'll say that say that on air too.

Paul G:

Maybe.

Andrea:

Yeah, why not? Hey, if you say tell us your name and where you're from, we'll do a shout-out.

Paul G:

Okay.

Andrea:

Why not?

Paul G:

Why?

Andrea:

If you're like listening from like some cool place or from like some other part of the country or some other part of the world, heck yeah, we'll give you a shout-out.

Paul G:

Okay.

Andrea:

Why not?

Paul G:

Okay. That's it. We got a listener in New Zealand and we have all the way over in um uh Germany.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Paul G:

And somebody in Iowa really likes our podcast.

Andrea:

Yeah, tell us who you don't have to tell your name and like give you like your blood type, your address, but like I just need the bank account. Stop. What? Just you know, give me a shout out on air. We appreciate all your support.

Paul G:

All right.

Andrea:

Sounds good?

Paul G:

Okay.

Andrea:

Bye. Bye.

Head Shot

Paul G Newton

Host
Head Shot

Andrea S

Co-host

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